.357 Magnum penetration

Nightcrawler

New member
Here's an idea. There's been some discussion of PDWs and rounds that will penetrate soft armor.

What kind of penetration would you get if you took .357 Magnum, in a strong revolver like a GP100. Then you hotloaded it, like maybe a 125grn bullet at 1800fps or better (heavier bullets and higher speeds...WESHOOT2 knows it's possible). The bullet would be a very hard, pointed round, designed for very deep penetration.

If done right, I think you'd have a round that'd laugh at soft armor vests and hard cover alike. Maybe not real practical, but it'd be fun...
 
If you want body armor penetraction there is some European (French) ammo called TRV or something like that that was designed strickly for penetration. I believe they are made in 357 mag, 9mm and 45ACP and will penetrate level IIIA vest. They have a long and skinny bullet with little ball on end.
 
The key is the bullet design, not using high pressure loads.
Been available....and mostly illegal for a generation or more.

Sam
 
Making AP handgun ammo is easy.

Take a large nail with a diameter about the same as the JHP cavity of your bullet. Chop off the tip. Glue it into the hollowpoint cavity. You want the pointy bit just barely sticking out.

You can even do this to pre-loaded factory rounds.

Question is, WHY? They won't expand...net wounding will be low on an unarmored target. You're better off getting a good gun, learning to shoot, and carry conventional JHPs...if you ever do have to shoot at somebody wearing armor (NOT likely!) then headshot 'em.
 
The French ammunition is THV, standing for Trés Haute Vitesse, or Very High Speed. It's made of brass bar stock, cut to length, sized for caliber, and lathe-turned to a sharp point on a tapering cone. It has incredible velocities. A test was done in South Africa during the 1980's: the 9mm. Parabellum chronographed over 1,900 fps, and the .357 Magnum over 2,500 fps. It would defeat any vest, up to and including Level 4. For this reason, it's been banned in many countries. I understand that France has now declared this a "war munition", available for sale only to national defence forces or law enforcement bodies (with appropriate export permits and licences).

As far as penetration goes, the THV will penetrate very well in the first part of its travel, but because it's very light, it loses velocity quickly. It's very likely to stay within the body of a felon, because it doesn't have the momentum to over-penetrate. In this sense, it's a very good stopping round indeed: it tends to dump all its energy into the target, rather than waste a lot of it beyond the target in flying downrange. "Field tests" (euphemism for police use) showed it to be pretty effective in bringing down BG's: not necessarily as good as (say) a 125gr. .357 Magnum hollowpoint, but at least as good as a 9mm. 115gr. +P round.

Of course, it's very easy to make your own THV equivalent: just get good brass bar stock of almost the right diameter, then lathe-turn it to (say) .357" diameter, cut the cone and sharp point, and then cut off at the appropriate length. For loading, use a very fast powder (I seem to recall that the factory THV loads used a shotgun powder), but watch that pressure spike! - it's very hairy indeed at these velocities in a handgun... (The THV cases, even factory loads, were always full of over-pressure signs: primers weren't just flattened, they flowed!) In South Africa, dozens of tool-handy gun owners made their own THV rounds while the "craze" lasted, and they all seemed to perform pretty well. One thing, though: make sure that there's enough bearing area for the bullet to grip the rifling and stabilize. Some guys tried to have a very short bearing area, in the interests of reducing bullet weight and increasing velocity. This led to unstabilized bullets key-holing all over the target - not a good thing for penetration...
 
I never said I had a use for AP handgun ammo. I just wanted to know if it was possible. Especially in a classic like .357.

NOw, as for this Frenchy stuff...I can see it tearing through Level IIIA soft armor, but Level III and IV require ceramic or steel plates. Level IV will stop .30-06AP, I believe (your sternum will still be shoved through your lungs, but the round probably won't penetrate the first time...)
 
Hi, Nightcrawler. Sorry, I should have been more specific. AT THE TIME THAT THE THV AMMO TESTS WERE DONE IN SOUTH AFRICA, Level 4 armor did NOT involve ceramic plates, although mild steel plates (thin ones!) were in use. This mid-1980's, South-African-regulatory-standard Level 4 protection COULD be defeated by the THV rounds. I agree with you that given today's US Level 4 standards, particularly with the layered ceramic plates that modern technology can produce, the THV probably would not penetrate. It would probably penetrate modern Level IIIA, though.
 
It's cool.

Jeff Cooper suggested a .357 revolver, loaded with pointed, high velocity, very hard rounds, would be adequate for bear defense, if one didn't have the means or the desire to carry a large .44 magnum or something similar. The pointed, solid bullets would be designed to penentrate deep through beara flesh, hide, and skull.
 
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