357 mag. vs 9mm
- Thread starter Tarcante
- Start date
Model12Win
Moderator
Essentially, yes.
.357 magnum loses a great deal of power when fired out of short barrels. The .357 magnum case can hold a fairly large volume of slow-burning powder and still be within pressure limits, but it takes a long barrel for that powder to burn all the way and propel the bullet at those classic magnum velocities of 1450 FPS on up.
When you cut the barrel down though, you can expect only about 1000-1100 FPS for the same cartridge. 9mm doesn't lose as much power because it's small case capacity is loaded with faster burning powders usually, and they don't need near the bbl length to build up to standard velocity.
There is a BIG difference in power between a .357 magnum snub nose with a 2" barrel and a full size .357 with a 6" barrel.
This is why I like a .357 to have at LEAST a 3" barrel, preferably 4" or 6". You just don't get the same power if you go less than that.
.357 magnum loses a great deal of power when fired out of short barrels. The .357 magnum case can hold a fairly large volume of slow-burning powder and still be within pressure limits, but it takes a long barrel for that powder to burn all the way and propel the bullet at those classic magnum velocities of 1450 FPS on up.
When you cut the barrel down though, you can expect only about 1000-1100 FPS for the same cartridge. 9mm doesn't lose as much power because it's small case capacity is loaded with faster burning powders usually, and they don't need near the bbl length to build up to standard velocity.
There is a BIG difference in power between a .357 magnum snub nose with a 2" barrel and a full size .357 with a 6" barrel.
This is why I like a .357 to have at LEAST a 3" barrel, preferably 4" or 6". You just don't get the same power if you go less than that.
Dragline45
New member
I am personally not a fan of the .357 out of short barrels, I am actually not a fan of the .357 at all. It's essentially a 9mm bullet moving 200-400fps faster. If you think 200-400fps is the difference between saving your life and not, then go for it, I personally do not.
Crankgrinder
New member
Thus is the reason why I traded in my 2 -1/4" sp101. Nice gun but too much compromise for no gain. Out of it I got a ruger 1911.
In my experience (re my chronograph testing of .357 Magnum loadings), a full-power 125 gr .357 Magnum (Remington 125gr JSP was what I chrono'd) will achieve roughly the same velocity (1200-1250 fps) from a ~2" barrel as the advertised velocity of a 124 gr 9mm+P from a 4" barrel.
A full-power 158 gr .357 Magnum (I chrono'd Federal 158 gr JSP and Remington 158 gr SJHP) will run ~1100-1150 fps from a snub barrel as opposed to most 147 gr 9mm loadings being advertised at 950-1000 fps from a 4" barrel.
Also, bear in mind that many .357 Magnum loadings use bullets that are quite different than anything commercially loaded in 9mm and thus will perform differently even if the velocities and weights are similar.
A full-power 158 gr .357 Magnum (I chrono'd Federal 158 gr JSP and Remington 158 gr SJHP) will run ~1100-1150 fps from a snub barrel as opposed to most 147 gr 9mm loadings being advertised at 950-1000 fps from a 4" barrel.
Also, bear in mind that many .357 Magnum loadings use bullets that are quite different than anything commercially loaded in 9mm and thus will perform differently even if the velocities and weights are similar.
diggler1833
New member
If you are trying to impress someone with the sheer concussion, then the .357 Mangum in a 2" barrel is far superior to a 9mm. To really get the most out of that chambering you need a little more barrel length IMO.
I have seven .357s, a 2.25", 3", 4", (3) 6", and an 8.375". The 2.25" sees 38Spl only.
I have seven .357s, a 2.25", 3", 4", (3) 6", and an 8.375". The 2.25" sees 38Spl only.
testuser79
New member
For light bullets in short barrels, yes, there isn't much difference in fact, recoil should be a good deal less for a 124 grain 9mm+P over a 125 grain .357 magnum.
For heavier bullets 140 grains and over, though, the .357 has the edge...IF you are willing to tolerate more recoil. Of course, recoil depends on the weapon, a seven shot 2.5 inch L-frame is tolerable with 158 grain .357s, but a j-frame sized snub nose is a different story!
Here are some fairly representative numbers, no problems getting 1100 fps from a 158 grain bullet in a 2.5 inch barrel at least.
9mm+P - 115 grains, 1300 fps, 431 ft-lbs, power factor 150.
9mm+P - 124 grains, 1250 fps at best, 430 ft-lbs, power factor 155.
9mm - 147 grains roughly 1000 fps, energy 325 ft-lbs, power factor 147.
.357 - 140 grains 1185 fps, energy 436 ft-lbs, power factor 166.
.357 - 158 grains roughly 1100 fps, energy 424 ft-lbs, power factor 173. (Although 1150 is certainly not unheard of, 460 ft-lbs, power factor 182.)
The 158 grain .357 magnum loads have roughly the same energy as 9mm +P 124 grain loads from a short barrel with a bullet that has 27% more mass and 10% more momentum overall. Those ballistics are significantly in the magnums favor. At longer distances, the heavier bullet will likely hit harder, too, as the 9mm loses velocity.
I don't know how a 180 grain .357 would do, although, I think it would be interesting. Of course, I don't think those bullets would expand well at snub nose velocities.
.38 Super would be better chambering for a short barrel revolver than 9mm. Generally, a conversion to .38 super will allow a revolver to fire .38 super and 9mm. Here some real world Ruger 9mm LCR numbers...
http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-LCR9mm.htm
Short barrel .357...
http://www.snubnose.info/docs/38-snub_vs_357-snub.htm
Ruger .357 LCR numbers
http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2012/11/ruger-lcr-357-mag/2/#198-ruger-lcr
For heavier bullets 140 grains and over, though, the .357 has the edge...IF you are willing to tolerate more recoil. Of course, recoil depends on the weapon, a seven shot 2.5 inch L-frame is tolerable with 158 grain .357s, but a j-frame sized snub nose is a different story!
Here are some fairly representative numbers, no problems getting 1100 fps from a 158 grain bullet in a 2.5 inch barrel at least.
9mm+P - 115 grains, 1300 fps, 431 ft-lbs, power factor 150.
9mm+P - 124 grains, 1250 fps at best, 430 ft-lbs, power factor 155.
9mm - 147 grains roughly 1000 fps, energy 325 ft-lbs, power factor 147.
.357 - 140 grains 1185 fps, energy 436 ft-lbs, power factor 166.
.357 - 158 grains roughly 1100 fps, energy 424 ft-lbs, power factor 173. (Although 1150 is certainly not unheard of, 460 ft-lbs, power factor 182.)
The 158 grain .357 magnum loads have roughly the same energy as 9mm +P 124 grain loads from a short barrel with a bullet that has 27% more mass and 10% more momentum overall. Those ballistics are significantly in the magnums favor. At longer distances, the heavier bullet will likely hit harder, too, as the 9mm loses velocity.
I don't know how a 180 grain .357 would do, although, I think it would be interesting. Of course, I don't think those bullets would expand well at snub nose velocities.
.38 Super would be better chambering for a short barrel revolver than 9mm. Generally, a conversion to .38 super will allow a revolver to fire .38 super and 9mm. Here some real world Ruger 9mm LCR numbers...
http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-LCR9mm.htm
Short barrel .357...
http://www.snubnose.info/docs/38-snub_vs_357-snub.htm
Ruger .357 LCR numbers
http://www.personaldefenseworld.com/2012/11/ruger-lcr-357-mag/2/#198-ruger-lcr
Last edited:
Model12Win
Moderator
Some folks think they are real bad dudes because they carry a snub nose .357 MAGNUM, and laugh at the guy carrying a sub-compact "puny" 9mm.
As scientific testing has revealed, they are BOTH about equal in power but some don't want to believe that for whatever reason. Sometimes a word like MAGNUM grabs people's attention and fools them into not thinking straight!
As scientific testing has revealed, they are BOTH about equal in power but some don't want to believe that for whatever reason. Sometimes a word like MAGNUM grabs people's attention and fools them into not thinking straight!
Part of the difference is the powder used in commercial loads for the two rounds. 9mm is loaded with the fast burning powder needed to create the pressure spike necessary to overcome bullet inertia and "kick" the action into operation. The .357, made for revolvers, does not need a quick start and its recoil is essentially wasted, so slower burning powder is the norm. Further, most .357 will be fired in barrel lengths of 4" and up, so the manufacturers take that into consideration. But slower burning powder needs a longer barrel for efficiency; in a short barrel, most of the powder will burn outside the barrel, giving a satisfactory "boom" and lots of impressive flash, but no more energy to the bullet.
Jim
Jim
And of course let's not forget the ammunition especial made for short barrel revolvers. Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel ammo. .38 Special +P 135 grain hollow point coming out of a 2 inch barrel at about 850 fps.
http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/short_brl.aspx
http://www.speer-ammo.com/products/short_brl.aspx
buck460XVR
New member
200-400 fps is also the difference between the .357 and it's parent case, the .38 special. Somewhere along the way, someone musta figured that extra velocity was worthwhile. But I agree, it's certainly not needed for SD with a CWC weapon.
There is some interesting data here.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/calibers.html
There are some 180-200 gr bullets available for 357 magnum.
All of the published ballistics for revolver rounds is from 7-8" test barrels. All of the published ballistics for semi-auto rounds is from 4-5" test barrels. Almost no one actually uses 8" barrels on their guns so most all data for revolver rounds is inflated whereas most data for semi rounds is pretty close to real world results.
Revolvers also lose some energy from the cylinder gap, and the fact that barrel length is measured differently. If both 357 and 9mm are fired from the same length revolver barrel I think the 357 wins here, just not by much. BUT.... comparing equal barrel lengths between revolvers and semi's will result in very different size guns. A semi with a 4" barrel will be about the same overall size as a revolver with a 2" barrel. So from guns of equal size the semi wins in the 9mm vs 357 debate with 124/125 gr bullets.
The 357 does have the option of using much heavier (180-200 gr) bullets. For certain uses that could be a big difference.
http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/calibers.html
There are some 180-200 gr bullets available for 357 magnum.
All of the published ballistics for revolver rounds is from 7-8" test barrels. All of the published ballistics for semi-auto rounds is from 4-5" test barrels. Almost no one actually uses 8" barrels on their guns so most all data for revolver rounds is inflated whereas most data for semi rounds is pretty close to real world results.
Revolvers also lose some energy from the cylinder gap, and the fact that barrel length is measured differently. If both 357 and 9mm are fired from the same length revolver barrel I think the 357 wins here, just not by much. BUT.... comparing equal barrel lengths between revolvers and semi's will result in very different size guns. A semi with a 4" barrel will be about the same overall size as a revolver with a 2" barrel. So from guns of equal size the semi wins in the 9mm vs 357 debate with 124/125 gr bullets.
The 357 does have the option of using much heavier (180-200 gr) bullets. For certain uses that could be a big difference.
Super Sneaky Steve
New member
To the handloader the .357 magnum can do anything you want it to.
You can use fast powders like Bullseye, or slow powders like H110. You can load heavy bullets up to 200gr or as light as 90gr.
You can load them for high speed or low speed.
Having the extra case volume simply lets you do more. And being a revolver you have many more bullet profiles to choose from over the 9mm Luger.
In short the .357 is better in every way.
You can use fast powders like Bullseye, or slow powders like H110. You can load heavy bullets up to 200gr or as light as 90gr.
You can load them for high speed or low speed.
Having the extra case volume simply lets you do more. And being a revolver you have many more bullet profiles to choose from over the 9mm Luger.
In short the .357 is better in every way.
Onward Allusion
New member
Apples and Oranges
...but 357 Mag out of a 2" barrel can be as slow as a 9mm +P from a 4" barrel. They are different animals, however. The revolver's breach face is about 1.7" from the forcing cone. For all intents and purposes, that 1.7" is the chamber. The advertised 2" barrel begins at the forcing cone. So for a revolver with a 2" barrel, you actually have over 3 inches of "barrel" plus a cylinder gap that saps about 50 fps.
In a semi-auto, the breach face, chamber, & barrel are pretty much all in one. The entire length is the "barrel". So for a 4" semi auto's barrel, it's 4" from muzzle to breach face.
If you're looking at the BBTI numbers, the above needs to be taken into account. If you're weighing options between a 357 snub and a 9mm, barrel length need to be considered because to get equivalent fps in a 9mm, you will need a 4" barrel.
Personally, I carry both 357 Mag AND 9mm. My personal preference is the 357 but that's because it has a 3" barrel (or 4.5" if you think about it), and I load it with 180gr Buffalo Bore. No, I don't thump my chest and scream to the world "look at me - M A G N U M!"
Each cartridge serves different needs based on clothing, events, & scenarios.
...but 357 Mag out of a 2" barrel can be as slow as a 9mm +P from a 4" barrel. They are different animals, however. The revolver's breach face is about 1.7" from the forcing cone. For all intents and purposes, that 1.7" is the chamber. The advertised 2" barrel begins at the forcing cone. So for a revolver with a 2" barrel, you actually have over 3 inches of "barrel" plus a cylinder gap that saps about 50 fps.
In a semi-auto, the breach face, chamber, & barrel are pretty much all in one. The entire length is the "barrel". So for a 4" semi auto's barrel, it's 4" from muzzle to breach face.
If you're looking at the BBTI numbers, the above needs to be taken into account. If you're weighing options between a 357 snub and a 9mm, barrel length need to be considered because to get equivalent fps in a 9mm, you will need a 4" barrel.
Personally, I carry both 357 Mag AND 9mm. My personal preference is the 357 but that's because it has a 3" barrel (or 4.5" if you think about it), and I load it with 180gr Buffalo Bore. No, I don't thump my chest and scream to the world "look at me - M A G N U M!"
Each cartridge serves different needs based on clothing, events, & scenarios.
This is incorrect, in fact most of the .357 Magnum loadings marketed for self-defense have their advertised velocities measured from 4" vented test barrels. For example, Winchester's 125 gr PDX1, 125 gr Super-X JHP, and 145 gr Silvertip are all advertised from 4" barrels per Winchester's website. Likewise, all of Remington's .357 Magnum JHP loadings with the exception of their 180 gr offering are measured from 4" vented barrels as are Speer's 125 gr and 158 gr Gold Dots. Cor-Bon's 110 and 125 gr JHP and 125 gr DPX are advertised from 4" barrels as are Glaser's 80 gr Blue and Silver Safety Slugs and their 100 gr Pow'RBall. Finally, per ATK's LE website, Federal's 158 gr Hydra-Shok is also measured from a 4" vented test barrel and I highly suspect that the 130 gr Hydra-Shok and both 125 gr and 158 gr "Personal Defense Revolver" JHP loadings are as well since their velocities are on par with the comparable Winchester and Remington offerings.
I'm with James K. Typical .357 commercial ammo is loaded for everything from from snubbie to carbine in mind. 9mm is typicaly loaded with a pistol in mind.
To the handloader or the person using self defense specialty ammo designed for short barrel, .357 is the clear cut winner.
With ammo matched to the gun, the 9mm is much more similar to the .38spl than the .357.
To the handloader or the person using self defense specialty ammo designed for short barrel, .357 is the clear cut winner.
With ammo matched to the gun, the 9mm is much more similar to the .38spl than the .357.