.357 Mag vs .45 ACP

A

ArmySon

Staff Alumnus
Which caliber would you choose for defensive usage and why?

Granted, a revolver has less capacity then a semi-auto. However, I'm not concerned about magazine/cylinder capacity. I'd just like to hear your opinions on the plus and minuses of either caliber.

For the past two years, I've been carrying a .45 1911. Recently, I began carrying my S&W Model 60 more and more.

Just curious on your thoughts. Thanks!
 
I carry 9mm, 38 Super (rarely), 40 S&W (rarely), 41AE ('cause I like it), 44 Mag, .357 Mag, 45ACP.

And my 'always' 22.

Prefer 9mm and 45.

Best, IMO, are 45ACP, .357, 9mm, 41AE.

Best for you is the one you shoot with the most confidence; all calibers I've listed are good using correct loads.

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"All my ammo is factory ammo"
 
this is completely anecdotal, but here goes:

My brother had shot and wounded an antelope and he was out of rifle ammo and we were converging on the critter trying to finish it off when it started to get up and run. My brother drew his ruger blackhawk 357 sith a 6 inch barrel and fired a 158 gr semi jacketed hollowpoint into the base of the wounded animals skull at a distance of say 20 feet. I have NEVER seen an animal hit the ground that hard. Instant kill.

I've had to finish off a deer or two in my day, and maybe it was the shot placement alone that did the deed but that animal went down like someone dropped a SAFE on it.

Having said that I have total confidence in my 45.. just be forwarned if you shoot an antelope in the head the bullet will go right through without expanding and break the skull into large pieces undeer the hide. There is usually very little blood. But death is seemingly instant.. they just don't hit the ground like they do with a 357.

My dad had the same reaction shooting a wounded deer with a ruger sp101 with 125 grain sjwc's, the shot entered the back of the neck near the skull and when it exited broke the animal's jaw. It does a tremendous amount of damage.

I've never cared for the sharp bark and heavy recoil of the 357 in short barreled guns.. but its a hell of a cartridge.
 
Interesting, Son, that I choose between the same two carry guns, more or less. I shoot my compact .45 better than my Model 60. Much better. But, I can conceal the Model 60 better under some types of clothing. I think the 60 is becoming my warm attire gun while the .45 is quickly becoming my colder weather gun. That means I'm just about getting ready to switch since summer is quickly coming to a close in Indiana.

For me, the caliber is less important than what I can shoot well and also conceal well. I think I'm good enough at 10 feet with the 60. Much beyond that and it's anybody's guess exactly where it's going to go with the S&W. Of course this week, I went to the range, shooting at 25yards. The only dead center I hit out of a couple of hundred rounds was with the 60. But the only tight groups I shot was with the .45.

The bullseye out of the M60 at 25 yards I discounted as a fluke.

RJ
 
I choose a Ruger GP100 with 145 grain silvertips over any auto for self defense. The 1911 is great and it would be my first selection for military combat, but for general self defense the 357 is great and so is the reliable revolver. The 357 has the best overall track record of success in self defense. Thats my 2 cents.
 
I definitely shoot my 1911 MUCH better @ 25 yards. However, at 10 yards on in, the .357 is no slouch. I look at it from a defensive point of view. If I had to use it, I can hit the target from 25 yards with my 60. It won't group as tight but who gives a sh!t? If I had to use more then 3 shots with the .357, the guy is an alien, not human.

I have complete confidence in the .45 cartridge too. However, I just love the feel of my revolvers. I guess everything goes full circle.

When I first started shooting, I love the black "tactical" looks of polymer guns. Then I eventually switched over to the shiny "phase" and went with stainless. Now I prefer blued guns. With that in mind, my 60 is stainless hehe.

Any 1911 or semi auto I buy now a days is blued with the lone exception of my Kahr MK9. They didn't have any blued ones and I "had" to have it at that moment :D
 
For urbun/suburbun scenarios, I would choose .45 ACP. Recoil is fairly mild (compared to a .357 magnum) so one can get quick follow up shots. .357 magnum does more damage, but its a handful especially in snubby guns. The .45 ACP hits reasonably hard, and it is larger caliber so if the hollowpoints plug at least your gauranteed a .45 cal hole.

Let me add that if I was in the middle of nowhere (for example on a camping trip) I would rather have a .357 magnum. I think the .357 magnum would offer more protection against wild animals (like the Mountain Lion) or the occasional 2 legged predator.

[This message has been edited by Quantum Singularity (edited September 02, 2000).]
 
Which calibre would I choose for defensive use? Would choose the .45 ACP. It comes pre expanded.

Don't have .45 wheel gun so use .357mag or .44.

Sam...my favorite 9mm is the 9X32
 
I like them both. The muzzle blast and recoil on both is stout with short barrels (and light weight frames). At longer ranges, I Model 28 shoots far better than any GM I have ever shot. At closer ranges the difference is insignificant.

Generally speaking, for open carry in the country, I will go with my M28 everytime. For concealed carry I would reach for my GM. If i had to give one up, it would be the GM.

I have thought about the SP101 route but have not tried it mainly due to capacity/reload issues--not cartridge issues. Taurus makes a small seven shooter that is tempting.
 
I'm chuckling. I was comfortable with a .357 for 15-plus years and finally get a .45 last December and now you're going from 1911's the other way. The .357 snubs are effective, but aren't as intimidating as a 1911.
The .357 Mag. is my favorite, but I like to shoot the 125gr. loads and the *&* 649 at 23 oz. was wearing me out after 75 or so rounds. The heavier Ruger Police Serice Six wasn't a problem, nor was my father's 6" Python (shot it again today!)
Enjoy your Model 60, I just ordered a smaller .45 to replace my Kimber Stainless Gold Match. John
 
FBI studies on bullet effect stress two factors: Penetration. Bullet diameter.

The 45 ACP with 185 gr. JHP loaded +P is hard to beat. That's the rig I carry when I'm "in the field" with open carry.

Having said all that, I carry a Smith 60 in .357, 158 gr. JHP a lot because it's a lot smaller than the 1911.

If you place your shot in a vital area, the coroner won't be able to tell the difference in the wound.
 
Son,

I am glad that you initiated this thread. Just like you (and some others), I keep varying between .357 magnum (Smith 627 "N" frame and Ruger GP100) revolvers and .45 ACP (Colt and Kimber 1911A1s, Sig P220 and H&K USP Tactical) semiautomatics. It is my strong belief that all of these are truly outstanding defensive weapons -- accurate shot placement being the crucial variable.

My personal rating follows:
Concealment: Edge to the autoloaders, although both are possible
Accuracy: Edge to the revolvers, although both are more than adequate
Capacity: Edge to the semiautomatics, although six rounds should be more than sufficient
Reliability: Edge to the revolvers, although the semiautomatics are also excellent
Penetration: Edge to the revolvers (.357 velocity is superior)
Expansion: Edge to the autoloaders (starting at .451 is a major plus)
Proven Effectiveness: Tie, both rounds have demonstrated exceptional defensive prowess

Please note that I've consistently and intentionally used the term "edge", because the performance margin in all categories is small. In addition, please understand that I am evaluating this as a non-LEO; accordingly, the chance of requiring over six rounds is slight.

My conclusion is carry the .357 magnum revolver or the .45 ACP semiautomatic with which you feel the most comfortable. Make certain the loads you use provide excellent accuracy, expansion, and penetration and that they always work in your firearm.

I will be eager to see if one of our TFL experts can solve this quandary for me. I trust both the 357 and the 45 -- in aggregate, they seem to be virtually tied for overall effectiveness -- but I'm no authority.
 
According to rumor, the .357 Mag tends to hit people pretty hard and put them down. Same with the .45.
I trust the .45 though, and I shoot the .45 a whole lot better due to it's low recoil and low blast.

(The .357 Mag is just a 9mm going a bit faster when comparing defensive cartridges in defensive guns. I have never understood how people can chastise the 9mm and then praise the .357)



[This message has been edited by Red Bull (edited September 02, 2000).]
 
I think both calibers are awesome. In almost every defensive situation, I would prefer to have a .45 but there are several in which I feel the .357 would be better.

I personally prefer autos, but if I had a wheelgun for defense, it would be a .357 mag.
 
At the moment, I am contemplating the
purchase of a like-new Ruger Speed Six
in .357. What's making the decision difficult
is my intense dislike for the painful
report of a full house .357 round.

Don't know if it's because I've broken each
of my eadrums twice in the past and they are
super sensitive to that particular sound
wave or what. But I do believe it's distracting enough that it would have a negative effect on my ability to fire the
round without hearing protection. No such
problem with 9mm or .45. That, plus I don't
need another .38 which is what I'd probably
end up carrying in it.
 
For defense, I prefer .45ACP

It offers a good balance of power and controllability. The muzzle blast is not
severe and theres little flash.
 
Like everything in life it depends. If hand loaded a 357 can be much more powerful then a 45 ACP. How that translates into defensive stopping power I don't know. I can think of 3 loads off the top of my head that will do well over 900 foot pounds of energy in 357 (according to the Alliant specs). There are no 45 ACP loads that will push 180-grain bullets 1300-1400 FPS that I am aware of. With the right powder you can push a 110-grain 357 bullet 2040 FPS, for 1017 FPE!!!
But this power comes at a price -- recoil and controllability.

As I write this I see that it come back to the old argument of big and slow Vs small and fast.
 
Many moons ago I carried a S&W model 36 as a backup to my model 13. Carried the little stinker in a side pocket holster. Then I got a Charter arms .44 Bulldog and I just liked the idea of the extra punch that gun had. So these days I am carrying either a 5 inch .45 Super strong side or my .44 in the side pocket holster.

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***Torpedo***
It's a good life if you can survive it!
 
45acp: This gun is my standard carry round.
357 Magnum: This is my car and house gun. If my wife needs to use it, she knows all she has to do is point and pull the trigger. The 45 has far too many gadgets and possibilities (empty chamber, loaded chamber, safety on or off, hammer cocked or decocked)

While the 357 is a proven stopper and offers better penetration in most situations, it relies greatly on bullet design for its effectiveness. Not that I find that a problem, just something to consider. It should also be noted that in 2" barrels, the 357 is not the nicest behaving of weapons. The wicked kick, blast, and muzzle flip make follow-up shots more difficult.

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God made us in his own image.
Thomas Jefferson made us free.
John Browning made us equal.

Without Browning, we might not know about the other two...
 
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