357 Mag Short Barrel: 125 grain or 158 grain?

J

Joshua 2415

New member
I have a 4" S&W 327 Stainless and a 2 5/8" S&W 327 Stainless.

For self-defense, I really like everything I've seen about the Speer Gold Dot 125 grain, and am carrying that in my 4" revolver.

In my 2 5/8 revolver, I've been carrying the Buffalo Bore 158 grain Tactical Short Barrel load. My thought has been that, since that shorter barrel won't be getting the full velocity benefit normally associated with 357 magnum, maybe the heavier 158 grain is the better choice...get the job done with weight and momentum, instead of velocity.

Lately I've been tempted to just simplify things and carry the Speer Gold Dot 125 grain ammo in the shorter barrel. Assuming you want the best combination of penetration and expansion (in that order), what would you pick for the shorter barrel revolver, and why?

Thanks!
 
For what it is worth
I know you have a 2-5/8

More information from Doctor Roberts: "With few exceptions, such as the Speer 135 gr +P JHP and Barnes XPB, the vast majority of .38 Sp JHP's fail to expand when fired from 2" barrels in the 4 layer denim test. [...] There is no reason to go with .357 mag in a J-frame, as the significantly larger muzzle blast and flash, and harsher recoil of the .357 Magnum does not result in substantially improved terminal performance compared to the more controllable .38 Special bullets when fired from 2” barrels."
 
Simplify. The 125 Gold Dot is a classic defensive load. Sure, your shorter barrel will lose some velocity, but at self-defense range you'll have plenty of power. FWIW, I used to shoot a 2 1/2" Model 66. I was not a good shot with that thing, but it sure was a crowd pleaser. Point is, shooting well is primary. Pick the load you shoot best - for both guns. My guess is that will be the 125 Speer.
 
rcp1936...

"For what it is worth
I know you have a 2-5/8"

Other than I mention it in my post, how do you know this? I'm not sure I understand your message.
 
Other than I mention it in my post, how do you know this? I'm not sure I understand your message.
Click to expand...

Uhhhh... you said so in your post... what other reason would there be?:confused:

His message is pretty darn clear... .357mag produces a lot of muzzle blast is a short barrel but gains little performance over .38spl. Hence, the recommendation to use .38spl instead of .357mag.
 
I have a 2.5" 686 and would not put anything but full power 125's in it for defensive purposes. I also had a 2.25" SP101 that with the aid of some Hogue Nylon Monogrips was fine with full power 125's.
 
I carry my 2.5 inch Dan Wesson with Federal 357B 125 grainers. Very old school, but they impressed me a lot when I chronoed from the short barrel, many years ago. I would be lying if I said I remember the number, but I do remember I was very satisfied with it.

Of course, I have shot tons of the stuff over the years and am used to it. A load for beginners it is probably not.
 
rcp1936

"For what it is worth
I know you have a 2-5/8"

This is the part of his message that I didn't understand.

And I said, "Other than I mention it in my post..."

Not meaning any offense to anybody, I guess I was just reading more into the comment than was intended, like maybe he knows who I am and he sold me the gun, or something like that. Scolding from staff is not necessary, apparently just a miscommunication on my part. My apology, let's move on.
 
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Velocity from short barrels is far less than most realize. Placement and penetration are what get the job done anyway. Expansion is just icing on the cake. Heavier bullets don't rely on speed to work. The light fast bullets are good from longer barrels, but from shorter barrels I'd go with a heavier bullet. A 375mag at around 4 inches is just about the tipping point where speed is still OK. Any shorter and you are just shooting a very loud 9mm. It will still be faster than a 38 from the same length barrel. But the benefit vs cost in greater recoil and noise starts to be questionable.

"For what it is worth
I know you have a 2-5/8"

This is the part of his message that I didn't understand.
Click to expand...

His data is from a 2" gun. He is stating that he knows your 2 5/8" gun has a longer barrel and might be somewhat better. But probably not.

Just to add. Almost all magnum revolver ballistic data you see published is from 8" test barrels. It looks very good there. But a 2"-4" gun is 50%-75% shorter. For some reason folks are surprised to fine their guns are only getting about 60%-70% of the published speed they see. It would be like shooting a 300 magnum rifle with a 9"-12" barrel and expecting it to not be a LOT slower.

Here is a link to help understand

http://www.ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html
 
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It's still more than a 38 out of the same barrel and all that sturm and drang is, if you arrange things correctly, going into the other guy's face.
 
jmr40...

"His data is from a 2" gun. He is stating that he knows your 2 5/8" gun has a longer barrel and might be somewhat better. But probably not."

Ahhhh... thank you! I get it now. Not sure why I didn't see that the first time, just slow I guess. Thanks for the clarification, very helpful.
 
I like to use 180 grain full wadcutter hard cast handloads in my SP101 w/ a 2" bbl for self defense. I want all the penetration I can get, can't hope for much expansion out of such short barrels so might as well get penetration in case the target is behind cover etc. etc.
 
In my S&W 627 I carry Speer 170 grain GDHP.

In my S&W M&P 340 I carry Speer 135 grain short barrel .38 Special +P.
 
<<His message is pretty darn clear... .357mag produces a lot of muzzle blast is a short barrel but gains little performance over .38spl. Hence, the recommendation to use .38spl instead of .357mag.>>

Except it isn't true.
 
A 1000 fps Vs 750 fps ... now isn't that just a little performance increase ? It is a mere 250 fps in my M&P 340.
 
Many thanks to those who explained by response to the poster (:-)


FWIW

I have a 65-5 3" 357 and never had a problem with the recoil using 357
125 gr JHP
However I feel a 3" 357 rd is to much in the way of noise and flash to use in the home
So for in home SD I have it loaded with 125 gr Speer gold dot 38 spl +P per DR Roberts advice

Outside I load up with 125 Speer Gold Dot 357s unless I am carrying my MP9C in which case I use 125 gr Speer Gold Dot +P 9mm
 
but from shorter barrels I'd go with a heavier bullet.
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+1. Heavier every time in fact. That way we can 'slow' the bullet down, yet get plenty of penetration, and makes it less noisy in the process. Why I pack a .44Spec Bulldog (yes with handloads) for CC. Heavy and slow (subsonic) and with .44, a bigger hole. But if I had too pack the peanut caliber, 158g loaded down to .38+P power levels would be my choice. YMMV of course.
 
I would go with the 357 125 grain anytime, 2.5" or 4". Yeah there might be a slight loss in velocity and muzzle flash is a bit exciting, but during a situation where you are shooting someone that will be the least of your problems. Also consider how well you shoot either, I always found the 125 easier to shoot and faster for follow up shots and in my 2.5" and 3" S&W's it is plenty accurate. Shot placement is still king over anything else. Just my 2 cents.

Ed
 
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