357 mag rifle or 44 mag rifle?

J

Jak300gt

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357 mag or 44 mag rifle?
Does any one have any experience with either of these with deer. I already know they are not 300 yrd rifles. But would they out perform a 410 slug. I'm looking to possibly get my son (almost 8 yrs old) something to hunt with and was wondering how they perform. Also there is a possibility of the 45lc rifle.

I live in Ohio so I'm looking at straight wall pistol cartridges only. And we hunt woods so 100yds max.
So as far as bullet flight, bullet drop, and bullet expansion, how would those 3 stack up against the 410 slug.
I do reload and would be eventually however the first season he goes would be with factory rounds.
 
A .410 slug is typically 1/5 oz (approx 90 gr). I have some, but I never ran them over a chronograph. No experience with them on game, but I would worry about them holding together on impact.

Lots of people use .357 on deer, and of course, there are well designed JHP bullets that are proven to perform. I don't have a rifle in that caliber. My GP-100, only a 4" barrel, sends 158 XTPs out at a reliable 1,300 fps. They'll go a lot faster from a rifle.

I do have measurements for rifle (22") and revolver (7 1/2") in .44 Mag. Hornady 240 XTPs go 1,850 from the rifle, 1,450 from the handgun. I remember my brother using commercial 185s in this rifle, running about 2,000. He put a big hole through a doe in Pennsylvania. The thing about the .44 is recoil. Not much by hunting rifle standards, but still substantial for a young person.

I'd use the .357 Mag. Less recoil in a rifle, and proven to do the job.
 
I have a 357 ,and while it can do the job with deer it's really a sub-100yard gun. I think you would be much better off with a 44 mag or even a 45 Colt.

A lever action in either caliber would make a great first gun for a kid.
 
Any of those choices would grossly outperform a .410 slug in both accuracy and power.

Slugs don't group any better than a couple inches at 25 yards, and many do a lot worse. And that's if you're good with a bead.

Carbines have real sights, and many have provisions for mounting optics.

A spicy .410 slug is going to be 114 grains around 1800 fps. Most are a little slower with lighter slugs.

Try here for .44 magnum chrono results:
http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/44mag.html

And here for .357:
http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/357mag.html

.45 LC can be handloaded to exceed the .44 magnum, but recoil may be a consideration.
 
Get him the .44 and start off with .44 Spcl ammo until he is comfortable.
Click to expand...

Yes!

My Winchester Trapper AE .44 magnum with full loads will print a cloverleaf at 25 yards over open sights (which is the way I like it.)

Deaf
 
He has shot a 410 using 3" slugs. He doesn't mind the recoil of that at all. But the accuracy is horrible out of the nef single shot.
I was looking at the Ruger m77/357 or the m77/44. That was the reason for the original question. Both of witch are bolt guns.
 
I'm in the same boat, and just bought a 77/357 for exactly the same reasons (except my son is 11). I can't comment on one versus another. I thought I'd go with the .357 because I have a bunch of it. Also, it would be more fun to plink with. Plus, .38 special is cheaper than .44 special (though I reload). If more rifle is needed, I'd be happy to buy a 77/44.

I've never shot a rifle in .44, so I can't comment. If primarily for hunting, you can't go wrong with a .44. In my case, I wanted to start my son off shooting a bolt gun, so as a shooter, it might be better to start my son off with an easier shooting gun. I have a Marlin 94 in .357, so I'm familiar with what the 77/357 would feel like.

Keep in mind that both the 77/357 and the 77/44 have been discontinued. You might want to pick one up quick, before the prices skyrocket.
 
I have killed many deer and antelope with 357 and 44 revolvers. They work VERY well with LBT Hard Cast bullets. In a rifle they'll only work better.
No problems at all.

My friend Randy has killed about 25 antelope and deer with his two M94 357 mag Marlins here in Wyoming. All were one shot kills and none have gone more than about 10 feet after the hits.
When we use 187 grain LBT bullets and a good charge of H110 powder we chronograph his loads at about 1900 FPS. Compare that to a 30-30 factory load with a 170 grain bullet. They chronograph about 2000 from 20 inch barrels (slower than what the factories say)
So the 30-30 shoots about 100 to 125 FPS faster, but is 17 grains less in weight.

Don't believe that a 357 is a sub-standard deer round. If you use the right bullet I assure you it is not.

The 44 is simply great.
If you use 300 or 320 grain bullets from a carbine you can expect 1850 FPS with max safe loads. These same bullet shoot clear through elk after hitting shoulder bones from 6" barreled revolvers at only 1200 FPS.

In a rifle they compare very well to some of the old 38 and 40 caliber hunting rounds used in the last century for game much larger than deer.

Either one is going to work just fine for you.

A 44 in a light carbine kicks a lot harder than most people think it will however. Not bad,----- but more than you might think.
 
357/.44

As a deer carbine, the .44 is ahead of the .357 by a large margin, as noted by others. As a general purpose rifle, you might get more use out of a .357. The .357 will work for deer, but can be shot cheaper, with less noise, recoil and expense, for practice and fun, especially with .38's.

Another thought......the boy will likely outgrow the .357 pretty quickly, but the .44 will stay useful as a deer rifle into adulthood.

What ever you choose, I applaud the choice of a bolt rifle. My experience with bamaboy as a lad, with our Marlin .357, was that the external hammer was essentially a liability for small youthful hands. We used it solely as a single shot trainer, open the action, insert a single round into the chamber, close and shoot. Lowering the hammer to half cock on a live round was too dicey.
 
The modern Marlin rifles have crossbolt safeties, so lowering them to half cock is no longer an issue. You activate the safety, pull the trigger, and the rifle is half cocked. Release the safety, and you're ready to pull the hammer back and fire.

I wanted the bolt gun for the accuracy and to instill familiarity with a bolt action.
 
If you are looking at the M77/357 and M77/44, you might want to look at the Ruger American Ranch in .300 Blackout as well. Very small recoil, Small/light rifle and very accurate and is a little cheaper I believe. The one problem I've run into with mine though is that I sometimes get light primer strikes with factory ammo. I have heard of others having this issue as well, and it seems to be because many manufacturers are using hard primers for the AR style rifles this round is usually found in. I have not been able to get set up for reloading with the .300 Blk to test this out though. I guess something in 7.62x39 (CZ 527) 6.8 SPC, or 6.5 Grendel (Howa Mini?) would work too.

Is there any reason why you were only asking about the .357 and .44 Mags?
 
44 mag is one of the most versatile cartridges ever devised IMHO, everything is easy including reloading. It will be a rifle he'll keep for his whole life. ; )
 
The modern Marlin rifles have crossbolt safeties, so lowering them to half cock is no longer an issue. You activate the safety, pull the trigger, and the rifle is half cocked. Release the safety, and you're ready to pull the hammer back and fire.
Click to expand...

Absolutely not...

The CBS (Cross-Bolt Safety) is NOT at the half cock notch on the hammer...

If you happen to pull the trigger with the CBS engaged, yes the rifle will not fire...

However, it is NOT at half-cock at that time...you must pull the hammer rearward appx. 1/4" before the half-cock notch engages...

Pretty sure you can't even take the safety off with the hammer resting against the CBS (I have not tried, and will not)...
 
While it can be kind of rough in a pistol I think the 44 magnum is a very nice shooting close range rifle cartridge. I had a 94 AE trapper that was an absolute joy to shoot, my brother in laws 1894 Marlin falls in that same category.
 
You mentioned the possibility of a 45 Colt chambered carbine. IMHO that is a great option to think about.. You can load them to old school low pressure specs and it will be easy on the shoulder. Or, load them up to Ruger/TC specs as your son becomes more capable (which any modern era Winchester or Marlin lever action can easily stand up to) and you have 44mag or better horsepower.

You can also reduce your 44mag handloads to 44spl specs for easier on the shoulder shooting too.. You did say that you would be handloading so that's why I mention these points.


Myself, I would do the 44mag or 45 Colt. Nothing against the 357 and not saying it isn't suitable for taking deer... But it's pretty much agreed upon that the 44 or 45 will do it better and are more capable. Just a couple of weeks back my sister in law took her first deer with her Winchester 94 Trapper in 44 mag. She was using rather mild handloads and I was completely in awe of the wound that round created in the animal. She was using Hornady 225gr FTX bullets don't remember the powder and charge but my brother stated it to be a mild load.
 
I'm going to be a little bit more pragmatic with my answer. I think all 3 cartridges will do fine. Of course, bigger is better especially considering longer distances. But, what I'm thinking is ... is there a caliber that you already have in a handgun or is there a caliber you would want in a hand gun. If so, why not match up the hand gun and the carbine caliber ???
 
44 magnum from a long gun should get the job done. I've killed a few deer with my Ruger Super Redhawk, 7.5" barrel with 4X scope. Shortest shot was 40 yards and longest was 105 yards. I used cast bullets. All were one-shot kills. From a carbine, the 44 should have plenty of power.
 
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