.357 Mag/.38 Spl vs 357 Sig/9x19

[ligonierbill]

Had some fun at the range yesterday testing 125 JHP loads in a couple revolvers. New and old: Ruger GP-100 4" and a Colt Official Police 5" from 1938. I usually load cast or swaged 158 lead in my 38's, but I thought I would try some modern bullets. Still fooling with the 357 Sig, but the 9 mm is my primary defensive round at present. Had to look up the old rounds, and they are old: .38 Special developed 1898 and 9x19 in 1902. But new powders and bullets keep them current.

I need more work on the 357 Sig. Some loads run over 1,400, but they don't cycle well. Best effort that works is Federal Premium commercial, which send the 125 out at 1,348 from my Glock 23 with an OEM barrel. I've had better success with 9x19. The 125 Sierra FMJ and 124 Hornady XTP run about 1,150 from my full size M&P, both with a decent Std. Compare with Federal 124 HST at 1,141 avg.

Up until yesterday, my best 125 load for the .357 Mag was commercial Hornady Custom at 1,430. I had not been able to match that with H110, and 300-MP had frustrated me. Well, I got it to work. Shooting a 125 Sierra JHC over 21.4 gr 300-MP, I got an average of 1,463 with Std of 14.0. I think consistent crimp was my problem before. Can't see getting that velocity out of a functional 357 Sig, but someone else may do. The old Colt liked the new JHP 125's. Hornady XTP over 6.9 gr Power Pistol averaged 1,096/Std 11.7. Sierra JHC over 6.8 PP averaged 1,113/Std 3.0 (!).

I'll keep fooling with the 357 Sig, but if I'm packin' the Glock, I think I'll leave the .40 S&W barrel on. Interesting round, but it doesn't quite match the .357 Mag. The .38 Special is one of my favorite rounds, but you can see the 9x19 shades it a bit in ballistics, and of course, has far greater round capacity. I know many people like to carry snub nose 38's, but I'll stay with my 9's.

Oh, if you don't have one, you really should find an old Colt OP or a vintage S&W. My plastic 9's are practical, but they're no where near as much fun.

 

[Nick_C_S]

Ahh, the fond memories of loading hot.

357 Sig is an exceptional round. I hope you find some consistent load recipes. (I don't have or load for Sig.)

Assuming you're going for terminal ballistics ("stopping powder," as it's sometimes phrased), keep in mind that bullets can violently over-expand. Myself, If I can get a modern hollowpoint bullet up to 1200 f/s, I'm satisfied. Any modern design will reliably expand and likely incapacitate (assuming a good placement) at these velocities.

My 357 Mag 125gn full power defense round chronos at 1324 f/s through a 3" bbl, and 1393 f/s through a 4" bbl. And I consider this to be more than necessary and I have no desire to attempt to load it any hotter. My 158gn defense round chronos at 1291 f/s through a 4" bbl (didn't test through a 3") - and that too is plenty.

I carry my 3" (S&W 686+). In it is usually Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel factory ammo. It's a 135 grain bullet and chronos at 1153 f/s through the 3". Given the aggressive bullet profile, I'm sure it will open up with a well placed shot. That's 398 ft/lbs of energy for those physicists out there. There are many who have/load much more powerful rounds that yield a lot more kinetic energy, I know. But I carry these rounds with confidence. They're low flash, low report, and low recoil - and these are characteristics worthy of consideration when selecting ammunition for self defense.

The .38 Special is one of my favorite rounds, but you can see the 9x19 shades it a bit in ballistics

Mathematically speaking, yes. And I will stop short of disagreeing. But one thing to keep in mind is that a 38 Special bullet need not be a compromise between terminal ballistics and reliable feeding. The 38 Special bullet design can be purely based on terminal ballistics. So you can't really compare them apples to apples. There are some 38+p rounds that perform suprisingly well in a defense application. Just sayin'.

 

[vaalpens]

I need more work on the 357 Sig. Some loads run over 1,400, but they don't cycle well. Best effort that works is Federal Premium commercial, which send the 125 out at 1,348 from my Glock 23 with an OEM barrel.

Interesting comment regarding your 357sig ammo/reloads. Do you indicate that the 357sig cycles well, except for when you are getting to 1400fps?

I just load 357sig for accuracy and reliability. I don't own a chrono so I don't know if I am at 1300 or 1400fps. So far I have not had any cycling issues yet, so it would be good to know if cycling issues start showing up when you get to the higher velocities.