.357 load for bear/mountailn lions?
- Thread starter mrat
- Start date
If you are limited to .357 Magnum, and we're talking about factory ammo only, the top two rounds I would seriously consider are the Federal Premium Handgun Hunting 180 grain CastCore, or the Remington 165 grain Core-Lokt bullet. You will want bullets that hold together and provide deep penetration. Both of these should do that.
Ditto, what has been mentioned. For years I stomped around the woods with a 357 maggie stoked with 158gr softpoints. So if a 357 maggie is your choice go with Federals 180gr Hardcast hunting load. I'd recommend however a 41 mag, 44 mag, or 45LC. If I take my 357 maggie nowadays I take my shotgun also. Best Regards, J. Parker
Pesonally, I would NOT recommend the .357 Magnum for bears...in a pinch. however, I guess it's better'n a stick! If I anticipated having to use the .357 on a bruin, I'd probably load it with 158-180 gr. softpoints or hard-cast semi-wadcutters. Now, the mountain lion is relatively small and thin-skinned and is NOT particularly difficult to stop/kill...lots have been taken with .22 Magnum handguns!!! That being said, IF I anticipated having to use the .357 on a mountain lion, I'd probably use a major manufacturer's 125 gr. JHP...the same ones that have such a good reputation as manstoppers....mikey357
Poodleshooter
New member
I'd use a 200gr LSW load. That way, if the bear can't pass the GP100 through his system, the lead poisoning might get him. 
Robert the41MagFan
New member
mrat
Been attacked by a cougar and with only a 357 Magnum to defend myself. Due to my awareness, shooting prowess and LUCK, I walked away.
To make a long story short, was hunting alone from my tree stand. Evening came, I got down and when packing caught a cougar stocking me. With gun in hand and the cougar rushing me from 70 yards, shot and hit the bugger three time. Final shot was inside 20 yards. Saw the bullet enter the chest and exit the rump. Any game under relaxed conditions would go down with a shot like that. This cougar was turned sideways and flipped upside down from this shot. He got up and ran at me again and I took a defensive stance, ready to push him with one hand and shoot with the other. Five feet from me, he ran around me and went over a hill. I was in a state of shock that I could no longer shoot. Anyone that thinks they can get a head shot or other vital under these conditions is not dealing with real facts. This event took about four seconds, start to finish. Bear instead of a cougar, I would not be here writing this. Only thing that saved my life was that I saw him first. Very rare for a animal attack.
My conclusion is that 357 Magnum is absolute minimum firepower for the woods. I understand that not everyone can just go to the store and buy a new firearm. If you have no choice but to use a 357 Magnum, get the heaviest, fastest bullet you can find for your gun. One of LBT construction. If you are shopping, purchase a 44 Magnum, your chances of survival will be dramatically improved.
Been attacked by a cougar and with only a 357 Magnum to defend myself. Due to my awareness, shooting prowess and LUCK, I walked away.
To make a long story short, was hunting alone from my tree stand. Evening came, I got down and when packing caught a cougar stocking me. With gun in hand and the cougar rushing me from 70 yards, shot and hit the bugger three time. Final shot was inside 20 yards. Saw the bullet enter the chest and exit the rump. Any game under relaxed conditions would go down with a shot like that. This cougar was turned sideways and flipped upside down from this shot. He got up and ran at me again and I took a defensive stance, ready to push him with one hand and shoot with the other. Five feet from me, he ran around me and went over a hill. I was in a state of shock that I could no longer shoot. Anyone that thinks they can get a head shot or other vital under these conditions is not dealing with real facts. This event took about four seconds, start to finish. Bear instead of a cougar, I would not be here writing this. Only thing that saved my life was that I saw him first. Very rare for a animal attack.
My conclusion is that 357 Magnum is absolute minimum firepower for the woods. I understand that not everyone can just go to the store and buy a new firearm. If you have no choice but to use a 357 Magnum, get the heaviest, fastest bullet you can find for your gun. One of LBT construction. If you are shopping, purchase a 44 Magnum, your chances of survival will be dramatically improved.
rugercollector
New member
Cast loads
Having shot one mountain lion with a 158 gr. cast slug of my own casting, I can say that mountain lions are very east to kill with a decent shot placement. I like to carry an Sp-101 or GP-100 4 inch when I go to the woods myself. Anyone who ever shot a black bear will tell you they are easy to kill. About like a deer. If you mean Grizzlies a .44 won't be much better. All in all I would load up a nice 180 gr. cast load from Oregon Trail Bullet Co. they will send you 6 free sample bullets if you call them at 1-800-811-0548 and tell them what you want. I find most people who are afraid of black bears have never met or shot one. They are not fun to play with but not exceptionally hard to kill either.
Having shot one mountain lion with a 158 gr. cast slug of my own casting, I can say that mountain lions are very east to kill with a decent shot placement. I like to carry an Sp-101 or GP-100 4 inch when I go to the woods myself. Anyone who ever shot a black bear will tell you they are easy to kill. About like a deer. If you mean Grizzlies a .44 won't be much better. All in all I would load up a nice 180 gr. cast load from Oregon Trail Bullet Co. they will send you 6 free sample bullets if you call them at 1-800-811-0548 and tell them what you want. I find most people who are afraid of black bears have never met or shot one. They are not fun to play with but not exceptionally hard to kill either.
Quantum Singularity
New member
.357 Mag.....Mountain Lions, YES......Bears, NO
IMO.......
I agree with Rugercollector about Mountain Lions. Mountain Lions can be (somewhat) easily killed by .357 mag with proper shot placement.
However, bears are another story. .357 mag is at best marginally effective on small Black Bears. It is hell of a lot better than nothing, but don't expect much on bears.
IMO.......
I agree with Rugercollector about Mountain Lions. Mountain Lions can be (somewhat) easily killed by .357 mag with proper shot placement.
However, bears are another story. .357 mag is at best marginally effective on small Black Bears. It is hell of a lot better than nothing, but don't expect much on bears.
A good solid HP in .357 should do fine on bears and many have been killed with the .357 too. But in most cases thats by hunters with dogs which is a lot differant situation. Now for a cranky bear at short range in the face I would pick a .41 at least and wish for bigger.
Lead slugs tends to skid over the skull and many shoot at the gristle and fat with no brain forehead. Always shoot at below eye level,up the air intake is a very good spot. The bad part is a cat is a light skinned and boned animal while the bear is the complete opposite and so would be the best loads for both.
Lead slugs tends to skid over the skull and many shoot at the gristle and fat with no brain forehead. Always shoot at below eye level,up the air intake is a very good spot. The bad part is a cat is a light skinned and boned animal while the bear is the complete opposite and so would be the best loads for both.I actually have a Taurus 4 inch .44 mag, it is their version of the mountain gun. I asked about .357 loads because I just got the 3 inch GP100 and I am looking for excuses to carry it, I really like the balance of it. I am more likely to run into a cougar in the woods around here than a black bear.
pepper spray insted of bullets?
Don't laugh at me, but I think there is evidence, that pepper spray is amazingly effective at stopping fierce creatures. Take a look at: http://www.udap.com/testify.htm
Quote: The truth is, guns have not proven very effective against repelling grizzly bears from attack, and we usually end up with a dead bear, and often, a mauled hunter. Officials from the WY Fish and Game Department and MT Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks all recommend that hunters and other people in grizzly country use pepper spray as the first line of defense in a bear encounter. Dave Moody of WY Fish and Game Department said that in dozens of cases in the last 15 years, only once has a grizzly bear continued through pepper spray to attack the sprayer [through 1997], while noting that in the majority of cases in which a bear is shot, the shooter is
still reached by the bear. For the most part, I think [pistols] are totally useless in a bear attack, Moody told the Casper Star Tribune last fall. --
Tim Stevens, Grizzly Mortality: Alarming and Avoidable, Greater Yellowstone Report 1997
and from http://www.bearsmag.com/articles/sharing.html
If you're attacked, both Vance and Wiltse advocate using pepper spray. "It happens so quickly," said Vance, "you're more likely hit the bear with pepper spray because it makes such a wide swath; it's easier to hit the bear." Both outfitters feel so strongly about the spray, their guides and hunters carry it as the main line of defense against an attack. Make sure it is the ten percent concentrate, not the milder personal defense formula.--Sharing the Mountain? Hunting in Griz Country by Tim Christie
Don't laugh at me, but I think there is evidence, that pepper spray is amazingly effective at stopping fierce creatures. Take a look at: http://www.udap.com/testify.htm
Quote: The truth is, guns have not proven very effective against repelling grizzly bears from attack, and we usually end up with a dead bear, and often, a mauled hunter. Officials from the WY Fish and Game Department and MT Department of Fish, Wildlife and Parks all recommend that hunters and other people in grizzly country use pepper spray as the first line of defense in a bear encounter. Dave Moody of WY Fish and Game Department said that in dozens of cases in the last 15 years, only once has a grizzly bear continued through pepper spray to attack the sprayer [through 1997], while noting that in the majority of cases in which a bear is shot, the shooter is
still reached by the bear. For the most part, I think [pistols] are totally useless in a bear attack, Moody told the Casper Star Tribune last fall. --
Tim Stevens, Grizzly Mortality: Alarming and Avoidable, Greater Yellowstone Report 1997
and from http://www.bearsmag.com/articles/sharing.html
If you're attacked, both Vance and Wiltse advocate using pepper spray. "It happens so quickly," said Vance, "you're more likely hit the bear with pepper spray because it makes such a wide swath; it's easier to hit the bear." Both outfitters feel so strongly about the spray, their guides and hunters carry it as the main line of defense against an attack. Make sure it is the ten percent concentrate, not the milder personal defense formula.--Sharing the Mountain? Hunting in Griz Country by Tim Christie
P
PreserveFreedom
Guest
if not the previously mentioned cast load, try getting some FMJ magnums. They are made, but hard to come by. Last time I saw them, Cheaper than Dirt had some made by S&B.
A few posts back mrat mentioned BLACK bears not GRIZZLIES. I think that's what we're dealing with here. IMHO, there's a HUGE difference between the two. I also think there's a big difference between Eastern blackies and Western blackies. Female black bears out west (depending on locale) can average only a 150lbs. or so. Males 200 or 225. Mrat; If you want to go woods bumming with that 3" Ruger maggie I say "go for it". I know I'd look pretty stupid lugging around a .458 Win. mag. in the mountains of SE Washington State. Indestructable thousand pound Grizzlies aren't really a problem for 99% of us anyway. Best Regards, J. Parker
The .357 is just too small. I recall a *black* bear near town walking away with several .357 slugs in him a year or so back. The blood trail stopped after a few hundred yards, and I expect that old fellow will carry the lead around with few problems. The only thing I'd suggest to stop a determined bear would be a shotgun with slugs or a levergun shooting .45/70 or larger. Very hot .44 mags or .454 Casulls might work in a pinch, but you're rolling dice with the .357. You stand a good chance of turning a bluff charge into a real one.
Something most people here don't seem to grasp. In a hunting situation, where YOU can pick the angle and shot placement many handguns can drop a cougar or a bear. In an attack situation, animal charging AT you with NO time to be picky is another situation entirely. From the front a bear offers very little in the way of good "kill zones". I personally skinned out (well we didn't have to skin the head) a black bear that took six hits with .30-30 Winchester softpoints (from a M94 carbine) in the forehead. Scalped him very nicely. Made some grooves and lead smears on the skull. None of them penetrated or did much but annoy the bear. A second hunter dropped him with a side shot using a .30-06. Roughly 350 pound male that decided the deer the first hunter was dressing out smelled good. Cougars are much more "fragile" but you are even less likely to see them coming. Of course they tend to be more cautious around men (although that may be changing lately) than bears and less likely to attack. Either way, whatever I was carrying I would opt for a heavy, solid slug. Something with penetration. While the cougar is much lighter build than the bear it is still a lot heavier boned and muscled than the average man.
Nobody has mentioned CorBon's excellent "heavy" 357mag loads. They start at 170gr and go up to 200gr. BTW, my personal load for this situation (in a GP100) is a 180gr semijacketed HP at about 1200fps. Where I live/play (Mid Atlantic), the black bears aren't much bigger than the deer. The last bear I saw taken out of these woods was only 100lbs.
Chris
Chris