357 for deer

[Justin62882]

I been wanting a revolver to hunt. I bow and shotgun hunt but I want a sidearm when it's gun season for short range shots. Probably 25 yards or less. It's hard to shoot past 50 yards where I hunt at regardless and anything over 25 unless perfect at 30 I will sling a slug at them. I've been debating the .357 with a 6 or 6.5 inch barrel. How far has deer ran before dropping after being shot with . 357 (non headshot) for your guys hunts in the past? Similar to a bow? Also anyone hunt with buffalo bore ammo? Thanks

 

[buck460XVR]

Similar to a bow?

Yes. This is how I think of my .357 revolvers when using them for deer. Same range and same type of shots. Deer usually react the same to the shot and die from similar hits at similar distances. I tend to prefer JSPs or hard cast in hopes of a exit wound to aid in bloodtrailing. Have taken several deer with my .357 revolvers and none went more than 40-50 yards.

 

[USSR]

Have shot several deer with the .357 Magnum and always found it wanting. Moved up to the .45 Colt and what a difference. It puts them down with authority.

Don

 

[rodfac]

I've finished several deer & one elk over the years with a handgun but only at close range: less than 10 yds, and shooting them through the back of the skull. I've used a .357, a .45 ACP and a .22 (this last from less than a foot away.)

But two years ago, I lost a good doe shot from a stand at less than 25 yds. It was a head shot taken from an odd angle from my elevated deer stand. When she got back up, a 2nd shot, at 40 yds to the head was taken, again with what seemed like a good solid hold as the shot broke. I was using a S&W M19 with a 4" bbl., a gun I was very good with. The load was a hard cast LSWC with gas check at ~1150 fps and I had a lot of experience with it both offhand and from rest.

I was carrying both a Marlin 1894s carbine in 357 as well as the Model 19 that day, but took the shot with the Smith as it was so close, and the angle made a left hand shot with the carbine awkward.

Both shots immediately knocked her down and left a good blood trail when she got up again. And both were taken when she was looking away, ie. through the back of the skull, and equally, both were obviously off by some small amount, hence the good blood trail. In both cases, I waited ~10 minutes for her to bleed out before starting to get down out of my stand...a practice I've always done.

My son and I trailed her for three hours til dark, then with flashlights for another hour. At the end, it was hands and knees, and drop by drop of blood at intervals of 8-10 yards. We never found her.

In 60+ years of hunting, she was the 2nd deer I'd lost and it was and still is, a rotten memory for me. As it should be. We searched again the next day and never found her, in country we know like the back my hand, but the blood trail, at least for the first two hundred yards indicated she'd be down soon. In the end, it just petered out in the heavy brush and cedar blow downs.

For me, it was a lesson in "use enough gun" and be dead sure of your shot. Both of those shots, BTW, were taken because, from practice, I was sure I'd be able to place it within two inches of my POA at 50 yds. And that wasn't good enough. Head shots require pin point accuracy...no less...and the gun and I were not up to that hard standard. I won't say that hunting deer with a .357 handgun is a stunt, and not fair to the deer, but I will say that it requires expert skill with the short gun, and absolute acceptance of the gun/hunter's limitations.

Were I to do it all over again, if using a handgun, I'd select a heavier caliber; .44, or a heavily loaded .45 Colt; and I'd use my normal hold point; just behind the shoulder 4-5" up from the brisket, ensuring good through and through penetration and a better blood trail.

While I'm sure a .357 has enough weight and penetration for deer, it does so only at close range...for me that would be under 25 yds, and then only with a dead sure, rested position. In the case of the deer I lost, I probably pulled both shots to some extent, and while I've killed more than 75 deer in the 60+ years I've hunted them, I wasn't up to the mark on that one. Unacceptable.

Sorry for the long discourse and 'preachy' nature of this post but deer, or any game for that matter, deserve our best efforts for a clean kill. My failure to do that is a case in point. Best regards Rod

 

[Scoits]

Have used the 357 for deer but the 44 has been a better option. The 357 will do the job if you prefer the lighter recoil.

 

[NoSecondBest]

I have shot and killed over fifty deer with the .357mag over the last forty+ years. I have not lost a single deer with that caliber. I've also shot around ten with a .357mag rifle. In addition to those deer I've shot a dozen or so with the 44mag and a 30-30 and 7tcu with a TC Contender. The only deer I've lost with a handgun was lost with a 44mag using full power loads and heavy bullets. It was a bad shot on my part and a poor hit with any caliber, rifle or handgun, can result in a lost deer. I think I've put enough data points in to make a pretty fair evaluation of the effectiveness of the .357mag on deer. If there are people who claim it's not an effective deer cartridge, they're reading too many BS articles and becoming internet experts on how to hunt. They might also be poor shots, get easily excited when seeing deer, or taking shots they never should have taken. When hunting with a handgun for deer you need to keep your shots within your capable range of shooting, don't shoot at moving targets, place the shot where you'd place an arrow (if you bow hunt), and don't get "buck fever"....which is an adrenalin dump. Hunting with a handgun isn't a stunt. It requires the same dedication to improving your abilities as the bow does. Too many guys carry a handgun around and think they'll take a shot if one presents itself and don't have the ability or common sense to know what they can or cannot do with the handgun. My advice is to spend some time at the range and see what distances you can shoot and keep all shots in a six inch groups off hand. Don't shoot beyond that distance when hunting. Good luck.

 

[USSR]

If there are people who claim it's not an effective deer cartridge, they're reading too many BS articles and becoming internet experts on how to hunt. They might also be poor shots, get easily excited when seeing deer, or taking shots they never should have taken. When hunting with a handgun for deer you need to keep your shots within your capable range of shooting, don't shoot at moving targets, place the shot where you'd place an arrow (if you bow hunt), and don't get "buck fever"....which is an adrenalin dump. Hunting with a handgun isn't a stunt. It requires the same dedication to improving your abilities as the bow does. Too many guys carry a handgun around and think they'll take a shot if one presents itself and don't have the ability or common sense to know what they can or cannot do with the handgun.

You're making a lot of unfounded assumptions without knowing anything about other guys who have used the .357 Magnum and found it lacking.

Don

 

[Justin62882]

Thanks for the responses. It's always good just to ask. I'll just practice as much as I can out to 25 yards. As a bowhunter I won't take a shot past 30 yards. Over 15 years of hunting. I won't take any risks. I won't allow myself to take a bad shot. I've let many deer walk. Because I won't risk losing a deer. I lost one my first year at age 15 and honestly being my first year bow hunting and first shot there was alot I learned from that experience. I haven't lost a deer since but that still bothers me to this day. so if I practice til hunting season and I'm not shooting the best groups at 25 or 30 yards I just won't shoot. I'll put a slug in em. Thanks for your time responding

 

[NoSecondBest]

You're making a lot of unfounded assumptions without knowing anything about other guys who have used the .357 Magnum and found it lacking.

That statement makes no sense at all. If it's never been lacking for me over the last 40+ years, and on over fifty whitetails, why is it lacking for them? Must have touched a nerve there....sorry, but it's true.

 

[NoSecondBest]

Thanks for the responses. It's always good just to ask. I'll just practice as much as I can out to 25 yards. As a bowhunter I won't take a shot past 30 yards. Over 15 years of hunting. I won't take any risks. I won't allow myself to take a bad shot. I've let many deer walk. Because I won't risk losing a deer. I lost one my first year at age 15 and honestly being my first year bow hunting and first shot there was alot I learned from that experience. I haven't lost a deer since but that still bothers me to this day. so if I practice til hunting season and I'm not shooting the best groups at 25 or 30 yards I just won't shoot. I'll put a slug in em. Thanks for your time responding

Good luck Justin. I think you're off on the right track. You can always expand your opportunities as you improve your ability to shoot. Already being a bow hunter will serve you well with the handgun. Best of luck, it's a lot of fun.

 

[USSR]

Quote:
You're making a lot of unfounded assumptions without knowing anything about other guys who have used the .357 Magnum and found it lacking.

That statement makes no sense at all.

If you need to go back to school, please do so. It's in perfectly clear English. Your assumptions: Everyone but you is "reading too many BS articles and becoming internet experts on how to hunt", "might also be poor shots", "get easily excited when seeing deer", "taking shots they never should have taken", "carry a handgun around and think they'll take a shot if one presents itself and don't have the ability or common sense to know what they can or cannot do with the handgun". I'd say that's quite a few assumptions and arrogance on your part.

Don

 

[NoSecondBest]

USSR,
I don't need to go back to school, I have an advanced degree and speak English as my first language. I'm making no assumptions. I have a very long and successful history shooting and hunting with a handgun. I speak from experience and success in both hunting with a handgun and winning a great many state, regional, and national shoots with a handgun. I don't know what your background is in this area, but it's apparent you're very upset about a few things I've said about hunting with a handgun. That's too bad. I don't want to get into an argument on this site about this, but you seem determined to take issue with my comments. Having taken somewhere around sixty-five deer total with a handgun qualifies me to make some well founded statements regarding using a handgun for deer. Having been a champion shooter in several handgun disciplines qualifies me to make statements regarding using a handgun. Having been a factory sponsored shooter for several years gives me some credibility. I have no idea what your credentials are, but why don't we just agree to disagree. If you have some well founded success in this area please share your actual, personal experiences with us and let us learn something from you based on your own personal successes. I'm always willing to learn from those who know more on the subject than I do. Now, if you just feel compelled to have the last word....have it. I'm done giving you the attention you don't deserve.

 

[44 AMP]

... guys who have used the .357 Magnum and found it lacking.

I'd say that's quite a few assumptions and arrogance on your part.

I'd say the arrogance and assumption is with those people who find the CARTRIDGE lacking. Because, simply, its not "lacking" anything.

Is it the ideal round for certain situations? no. Does it kill deer? absolutely yes. If there is anything "lacking", its on the part of the shooter, NOT the cartridge.

Whether its lacking judgement to use the round within its effective envelope, or lacking the skill to make the needed shot, the fault is the shooters, not the round.

Don't take the failure of a head shot as gospel, either. Head shots are where Murphy loves to play games. A shot that would ordinarily punch right through CAN fail to do so, and even just glance off leaving a superficial wound, IF the stars line up just right. And, its not the thickness of the skull, its the exact angle and curvature where the bullet hits.

I once saw a guy shoot a skunk 3 times with a .357 Magnum (Marlin carbine), using 158gr hard lead SWCs. Didn't stop the skunk. Should we conclude from this that the .357 is a bad round that won't even stop a skunk? Some would, it seems.

On the other hand, being there, and seeing that each shot was a bad shot, all went in "aft of the boiler room", they did exactly what they were built to do, sailed right through the guts without doing anything else. I wound up dispatching the skunk with a single shot from a .45 Colt. Also a hard cast SWC, but it worked perfectly, because it went in the front of the head, and out the back, ending the skunk's misery.

USE the right bullet for your target, and put it in the right place, and it works. .357 is touted for how well it works as a manstopper. If it stops a man, it stops a deer. You might be better off choosing one kind of bullet for one kind of target and another for another, but the round has the capability, its up to the shooter to use it properly.

 

[USSR]

NoSecondBest,

Like you, I have "an advanced degree and speak English as my first language". You say you're making no assumptions, but I clearly layed them out for you in your own words. I have been deer hunting for about 55 years, so the "buck fever" and many other attributes you implied to those who disagree with you are long gone. Having my own range outside my house, I have ample oppurtunity to shoot handguns and maintain my skill, but this discussion centers around just how good the .357 Magnum in a handgun is as a deer round, not your braggadocio. Sure it works, and as I said, I have killed several deer with it before switching to a .45. I have seen deer killed with a .22 rimfire, but that doesn't mean it's a great deer round. So, I continue to maintain that the .357 Magnum in a handgun is a marginal deer cartridge and prefer to use something that is so much better.

Don

 

[USSR]

.357 is touted for how well it works as a manstopper. If it stops a man, it stops a deer.

Sorry, but that don't pass muster. Funny how the .223 as used by our military works as a "manstopper", but is relegated as a woodchuck round and not allowed for deer hunting in many states.

Don

 

[44 AMP]

Funny how the .223 as used by our military works as a "manstopper", but is relegated as a woodchuck round and not allowed for deer hunting in many states.

I doubt the .223 was chosen by the military because of its "manstopper" ability. And deer hunting is a sport. It's a game, with rules, and the rules are what the states want them to be, not what can actually work.

I grew up in a place where buckshot was not allowed for deer hunting. But it was allowed for bear hunting. And the season ran concurrently, in the same place...Go figure....

 

[Crazy Carl]

Good friend of mine has taken several deer with both .357 & .223. Heck, he's even taken one with a Ruger P89 in 9mm.

Some folks just don't like certain chamberings & refuse to change their opinion on its suitability for a stated purpose, regardless of any evidence to the contrary.

 

[USSR]

And, like I said, I've seen deer taken with a .22 rimfire. The point is, use what you want. Personally, I've moved on to a MUCH better handgun deer round.

Don

 

[Capt Rick Hiott]

I thought this would turn into a argument. Chill guys...…..

A 140 Gr 357 Mag comes out of a 8" handgun at around 1450 FPS with 500 Ft/Lb of energy at 50 yards, and about 400 Ft/Lbs at 100 yards.

These are factory loads.

With a scoped gun and a good hit with a hot load, I don't see a problem at 100 yards!

I shoot a .454,,,so I don't have a problem at 100 yards...….

 

[rodfac]

Glad it has worked well for you NoSecondBest...your last sentence is good advice...but don't read into a post nor make assumptions about those of us who don't spend a paragraph touting our resumes.

Suffice it to say that the gun/cartridge/load and shooter did not work out in the instance stated. My post was and still is an admonition to do one's best without stretching innate limitations. YMMV, Rod

My advice is to spend some time at the range and see what distances you can shoot and keep all shots in a six inch groups off hand. Don't shoot beyond that distance when hunting.