under_dawg
New member
Would a .357 158 gr bullet (out of a 4" GP-100) loaded to near max pressure work as a backup for deer at close ranges (150)?
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.357 158 gr Hornady XTP Deer backup
- Thread starter under_dawg
- Start date
If your (150) means 150 yards, you are fixing to get some complaints. I have a T/C Contender 10" .357 and will not take a shot past 75. I think even that is pushing its limits. I have always heard, treat a non-rifle round as a bow. Only shoot close shots 50 yards and less. Plus if you can not put all shots in an 8" circle at chosen range, DONT TAKE THE SHOT. But these are just things I have heard and go by.
If I am wrong I will be corrected. There are guys here a lot more experinced than myself.
Good luck and safe hunting
Lonny
If I am wrong I will be corrected. There are guys here a lot more experinced than myself.
Good luck and safe hunting
Lonny
What do you mean by "backup for deer"?
I have used a .357 a couple of times to finish off a crippled deer when I didn't want to shoot it with the rifle again. It worked fine with Remington Golden Saber 125gr. midrange loads and with 180gr. hard cast bullets at just over 1000fps. If the animal is hurt bad enough that it can't get up it should be easy to get close enough for a spine shot or a head shot if the antlers aren't an issue.
If you mean a backup in case your rifle is out of commission for some reason then yes, I think it would work for that, too. However, I would prefer a longer barrel for the increase in sight radius. If this was my purpose for having it I would also prefer a bigger hole in the end.
Answering questions about if some gun/caliber combination will work at some certain range is tricky, because it assumes you can hit the vitals at that range. If you put a 158gr XTP bullet into the rib cage of a deer at 150 yards you will make venison.
If you intend to hunt with it you need to figure out how far you can consistently hit the vitals of a deer from the kind of position you will likely be using in the field. Use a 6" circle, maybe an 8" at the biggest. If you hunt from a blind with a chair and a rail to rest on then bring a similar chair and a sawhorse to the range and practice with it. If you like to stalk or still hunt then try shooting offhand, rested against the side and top of a post, from braced kneeling, and sitting. How far away can you hit that circle EVERY time? That is how far you should shoot at a deer with that handgun.
If you want a real test, find out how far can you consistently hit that circle after having sprinted 100 yards? Seems likely that when you see that 18 pt. deer it will be right after you climbed a steep hill and are out of breath.
ETA no offense to lon371 with my picking a 6" circle instead of 8". The reason is that a 6" gives you a little more margin of error, which most of need every bit we can get in the field.
I have used a .357 a couple of times to finish off a crippled deer when I didn't want to shoot it with the rifle again. It worked fine with Remington Golden Saber 125gr. midrange loads and with 180gr. hard cast bullets at just over 1000fps. If the animal is hurt bad enough that it can't get up it should be easy to get close enough for a spine shot or a head shot if the antlers aren't an issue.
If you mean a backup in case your rifle is out of commission for some reason then yes, I think it would work for that, too. However, I would prefer a longer barrel for the increase in sight radius. If this was my purpose for having it I would also prefer a bigger hole in the end.
Answering questions about if some gun/caliber combination will work at some certain range is tricky, because it assumes you can hit the vitals at that range. If you put a 158gr XTP bullet into the rib cage of a deer at 150 yards you will make venison.
If you intend to hunt with it you need to figure out how far you can consistently hit the vitals of a deer from the kind of position you will likely be using in the field. Use a 6" circle, maybe an 8" at the biggest. If you hunt from a blind with a chair and a rail to rest on then bring a similar chair and a sawhorse to the range and practice with it. If you like to stalk or still hunt then try shooting offhand, rested against the side and top of a post, from braced kneeling, and sitting. How far away can you hit that circle EVERY time? That is how far you should shoot at a deer with that handgun.
If you want a real test, find out how far can you consistently hit that circle after having sprinted 100 yards? Seems likely that when you see that 18 pt. deer it will be right after you climbed a steep hill and are out of breath.
ETA no offense to lon371 with my picking a 6" circle instead of 8". The reason is that a 6" gives you a little more margin of error, which most of need every bit we can get in the field.
Its my opinion that if you need to back up a hunting rifle with a pistol, you need a new hunting rifle.
Pistol hunting is one thing. Rifle hunting is another.
I can see maybe hunting with a pistol and having a rifle to back up a pistol to keep wounded game from escaping to suffer, but the need to back up a rifle with a pistol, COME ON.
Pistol hunting is one thing. Rifle hunting is another.
I can see maybe hunting with a pistol and having a rifle to back up a pistol to keep wounded game from escaping to suffer, but the need to back up a rifle with a pistol, COME ON.
Ben Shepherd
New member
Yes. It will work just fine.
There's one major concern here though-
Know YOUR limits range wise. The type of load you're talking about will dump a deer easily. But ONLY if you put it in the boiler room.
There's one major concern here though-
Know YOUR limits range wise. The type of load you're talking about will dump a deer easily. But ONLY if you put it in the boiler room.
L_Killkenny
New member
As far as carrying a handgun and a rifle (in my case, shotgun), been there, done that. Won't do it again. If you want to go handgun hunting then take a handgun. If you want to go rifle hunting then take a rifle. No need for a back up. A knife works great for finishing off an ALMOST dead deer. If it has "too much" life in it that a knife won't work, shoot it again.
Last year I carried both. Not because I thought I needed a back up but because I thought it would be neat to get a deer with my .357 if I got a good shot at one. What a pain in the butt. Take one or the other, not both.
As far as 158 gr XTP's they should work. But 180's are all the better so why not use them? Range depends on on your skill with the handgun but IMHO, anything beyond 100 yards is too far. Your max range will depend on your ability to hit a 4-5" area from field positions. That may be 10 yards, it may be 100. Only you know your skill and your guns accuracy.
LK
Last year I carried both. Not because I thought I needed a back up but because I thought it would be neat to get a deer with my .357 if I got a good shot at one. What a pain in the butt. Take one or the other, not both.
As far as 158 gr XTP's they should work. But 180's are all the better so why not use them? Range depends on on your skill with the handgun but IMHO, anything beyond 100 yards is too far. Your max range will depend on your ability to hit a 4-5" area from field positions. That may be 10 yards, it may be 100. Only you know your skill and your guns accuracy.
LK
crowbeaner
New member
I carried a sidearm as a "backup" for 10 years hunting whitetails. The only thing I shot were treerats. Any deer I shot was DRT. ANY pistola gets to weigh about 10 pounds at the end of the day regardless how you carry it. In the end I left the rifle/shotgun in the car and just took the .44. Same difference; if I saw any deer they were too far for the revolver, or I didn't see anything. The Redhawk still weighed 10 pounds; I just wasn't as tired from lugging the long gun. The longest shot I took at a deer was around 60 yards. She wobbled about 30 and went down. Clean through the lungs and leaking blood on both sides. The .44 will do ANYTHING the .357 will, and twice on Sunday. Just load down some magnum brass with 8.0 of Red Dot and an RCBS 44-245-KT bullet. It will shoot clean through any deer, and not beat you up or break the bank like some of the hot custom loads from Buffalo Bore.
UniversalFrost
New member
i carry a handgun as a backup (a det snubby in .38) but it is a backup to use to snakes since i live in rattler heaven down here. I do carry it with bridshot,but have a few hp's just in case I need to put a critter out of it's misery if mortally wounded and I don't want to follow up with my rifle.
for handgun hunting solely the ranges are limited and you need to know your and your ammo's limitations based upon the handgun you are shooting.
my contender in 357 with 10" barrel is a 100yd gun no problems, 140 maybe , in 44 mag i don't worry about 150 yd shots, in 30/30 wiht a super 14" barrel I can hit the "boiler room" at 200 yards with target sights from a supported position no worries.
it all boils down to are you using an adequate rifle round for your game and your abilities? if not then upgrade and or learn how to shoot better. if you want to shoot a deer at 150 with a .357 handgun get a handgun that can meet those needs accurately (pretty much get a contender or encore with a 10-16" barrel and target sights or a scope)
for handgun hunting solely the ranges are limited and you need to know your and your ammo's limitations based upon the handgun you are shooting.
my contender in 357 with 10" barrel is a 100yd gun no problems, 140 maybe , in 44 mag i don't worry about 150 yd shots, in 30/30 wiht a super 14" barrel I can hit the "boiler room" at 200 yards with target sights from a supported position no worries.
it all boils down to are you using an adequate rifle round for your game and your abilities? if not then upgrade and or learn how to shoot better. if you want to shoot a deer at 150 with a .357 handgun get a handgun that can meet those needs accurately (pretty much get a contender or encore with a 10-16" barrel and target sights or a scope)
under_dawg
New member
Thanks for the input guys. I was in a bit of a hurry this morning when I submitted this post. The distance was supposed to be in feet, but I left off the '. Last year my son and I shared a 2 seater stand (he's trying to get his first deer). I only have a 30-30 right now and was letting him be the trigger man. I was curious if a deer walked up behind me where he couldn't draw a bead if I could take the shot with my pistol. I started reloading last year and was curious if I could "roll one" that would be effective at say 50 yards out of a 4" GP-100. I had box of 158 gr XTPs but I probably should get a box of 180gr XTPs as well.
Ben Shepherd
New member
Dawg- Those 158's you have will do fine. Just use a good dose of 2400,296, N110, etc.
All you have to do is put it where it needs to go. That particular slug should have no trouble going through a shoulder as long as you launch it at or above 1100. The above powders will get you there EASILY.
All you have to do is put it where it needs to go. That particular slug should have no trouble going through a shoulder as long as you launch it at or above 1100. The above powders will get you there EASILY.
crowbeaner
New member
Practice with your revolver at 50 yards shooting at the bottom of a 3# coffee can. When you can reliably hit it every time with your gun and load, you're good to go. I shot the 357 with Hornady 158 JSP flatpoints, 16.6 of WW296, CCI 550s and Federal brass for years.
150 yards... with a revolver?
There might be 100 people on earth who can ethically make that shot on a game animal. Regardless of the caliber.
The bullet needs to go into the vitals. The first time. Every time.
Whatever the longest range that you can do that from is, that's the longest range at which you can take an ethical shot.
I'll bet money that, for the vast majority of us, that range is under 75 yards.
Me, I wouldn't do it past 50 or so with any iron-sighted handgun. I've no experience with scoped handguns, so I can't help you there. But at any range that any of us should be taking a shot at a deer with an iron-sighted sixgun, the .357 with the right load will do the business.
--Shannon
There might be 100 people on earth who can ethically make that shot on a game animal. Regardless of the caliber.
The bullet needs to go into the vitals. The first time. Every time.
Whatever the longest range that you can do that from is, that's the longest range at which you can take an ethical shot.
I'll bet money that, for the vast majority of us, that range is under 75 yards.
Me, I wouldn't do it past 50 or so with any iron-sighted handgun. I've no experience with scoped handguns, so I can't help you there. But at any range that any of us should be taking a shot at a deer with an iron-sighted sixgun, the .357 with the right load will do the business.
--Shannon
FrontSight
New member
kraigwy...
I can see it if hunting dangerous game, something apt to charge, in bear territory, etc...if your nerves are rattled and the scope magnification set high for some reason then it's easy to go thru 5 rounds quickly and not have stopped the charge. I know I came close once with a boar, and would have been happier to have had my .45 with me.
Also your rifle might get knocked out of your hands for lots of reasons...nice to have that backup tight to your side...
Its my opinion that if you need to back up a hunting rifle with a pistol, you need a new hunting rifle.
Pistol hunting is one thing. Rifle hunting is another.
I can see maybe hunting with a pistol and having a rifle to back up a pistol to keep wounded game from escaping to suffer, but the need to back up a rifle with a pistol, COME ON.
I can see it if hunting dangerous game, something apt to charge, in bear territory, etc...if your nerves are rattled and the scope magnification set high for some reason then it's easy to go thru 5 rounds quickly and not have stopped the charge. I know I came close once with a boar, and would have been happier to have had my .45 with me.
Also your rifle might get knocked out of your hands for lots of reasons...nice to have that backup tight to your side...