.338-06 vs .35 Whelen

This is a want not a need. I already have a .308, .270 and a .30-06 and several that I've failed to mention.

We don't have feral pigs here but we do have Roosevelt elk and they're pretty big. I don't like reloading belted rounds or I'd go with a .338Win mag. I just might anyway...

Tony
 
No GeezerBiker, running a 338-06 reamer into a 338 Federal barrel is not good. The shoulder of the 338 Fed is 1.6" from the base of the case and it's .454" in diameter.
The body of the 30-06 case at 1.6" from it's base is only about 447" So when you rechamber any barrel based on a 308 with any reamer based on a 30-06 you get an unsupported place in the chamber at 1.6" from the base.

You can see it in the brass when the shell is fired. It's not dangerous, but it's just not the right way to do it.

Next we have the issue of feeding. If the gun is made "from the ground up" as a 338 Federal it's going to have a 308 length magazine. So the 338-06 wont fit. Examples will be the SAKOs Tekkas and the Savages rifles.

If it's made (for example) on a 98 Mauser and it's feeding the 338 Federal cartridges well now, it's likely the feed lips have been ground for that shell, and the 338-06 will not work smoothly. if you open it up farther ahead it may feed well, but it may not too, depending on how it was modified in the first case to feed the 338- Federals.
 
Depending on the barrel contour, a 338 Fed barrel could be set back and completely rechambered then fitted to a long action, but honestly I don't see the point. The 338 Fed is a fine hunting cartridge and I don't think the animals know any difference.

More than a few elk have been taken with sedate cartridges like the 7x57 and 30-40 Krag. Heck, a 30-06 is more than enough for hunting even the biggest hoofed game short of Cape Buff.

I like the Whelen because it is more cast bullet friendly, which has more to do with the barrel rate of twist and case volume to bore size than anything else. If I were only going for jacketed bullets and long range shooting, the 338-06 wins on performance past 200 yards, but even then solid hits by the Whelen are going to get the job done way farther out than most hunters have any business shooting.

Jimro
 
I've had both, sold them both. Honestly, both are a step down from 30-06 if you hand load. And if you own either 338-06 or 35 Whelen you will be hand loading because of cost and ammo availability.

Especially if you only plan on using 200-225 gr bullets. Those weights are available in 30 caliber and work much better. The 338-06 and 35 Whelen look a bit better on paper at the muzzle compared to 30-06, but you can kill anything in North America at close range with a 30-30. Beyond 200 yards a 30-06 loaded with some of the better 200-215 gr bullets smokes 338-06 and 35 Whelen, and as range increases the gap just grows wider.

The 33's and 35's give the option of 250-300 gr bullets. If you need bullets that heavy the 33's or 35's do offer an edge over 30's at close range. But most people who really need bullets that heavy skip straight to 375.

If you compare 308 to 338 Fed and 358 Win you find the same thing. The better 308 hand loads just work better. For some reason people never think about using 200+ gr bullets in the 30's. but they are available and work very well.

That is from a practical perspective. If I just wanted to be different and have a non-standard round I'd go back to the 338-06.
 
Jmr40, I'm not sure I agree with your statement that with the 200 gr. bullets the 30-06 is better than either the 338 or 35 on the same case. Looking at my reloading manual it shows the top velocity with a 200 gr. 30-06 at 2577 and 49,400 CUP. The top velocity with a 200 gr. in the 35 Whelen is 2807 and 49,000 CUP. Both can be loaded a little hotter than that in a modern action, but that is comparing apples to apples for pressure.

You would have to shoot a very long way out to have the higher BC of the 30 caliber overtake the 230 ft/sec higher velocity of the 35 caliber. I ran the ballistics of a .5 BC 200 gr 30 caliber at the above 2577 against a .4 BC of a 200 gr 35 caliber at the above 2807, and at 500 yards the 35 caliber had 7 inches less drop with the same 3" maximum point blank sighting.
 
One round I haven't seen mentioned that is in the same class is the 9.3x62 Mauser. I have been rereading the Selected Works of Finn Aagaard and he compared all three rounds and like the 9.3 best of all. He liked the 338-06 just slightly better than the 35 whelen.

There are rifles listed on GB and plenty of reloading stuff in stock at Midway. And a bolt gun in 358 or 356 winchester would be nice also. Poster Jack O'Conner looks like the 35 remington works fine for him.
 
Crawling around in the 'glades looking for big pigs I'd go for a short barreled levergun, 44 mag, 45 Colt, 444, all with 300+ grain cast bullets, or 45-70 with light(er) cast slugs.
Bolt action rifle I would look for a carbine chambered in 338 Fed or 358 Win or my current personal fast action turnbolt favorite, the Ruger GSR in .308. As others have pointed out, a well constructed 165 gr .308 will make short work of any hawg that has ever walked the earth.
I never stop being amused by the flames emitted in the 338-06 vs 35 Whelen wars. WTH? Does anyone seriously think there is a gnat's ass difference between the two? One shoots a tiny bit flatter, the other packs a tiny larger whallop, and THAT, as they say, is the end of the story. Pick the one that tickles your fancy. They are both effectively a reloader's cartridge and in today's crazy political climate, if you don't have reloading components and or ammo stockpiles to keep shooting for the next ten years you're an idiot.
Am I wrong? How often does Hornady, Federal, Rem, big Red et. al. do ammo runs of 338 Fed, or 358 Win, or 338-06, or 35 Whelen? How often does Sierra, or Speer, or Hornady do bullet runs of anything these days besides .223 and .308 caliber bullets? Seriously, after the shooting in California two weeks ago, I got online and dropped another $1000 for reloading supplies. I will not get caught again like we all did after Newtown.
Now for my plug, I'm a 35 whore, 35 Remmys, 358 Wins, and 35 Whelens all sit in my gun safes. My custom 03a3 Whelen AI spits out 225 Partitions at 2825 fps with 60 grains of powder and puts those bullets on top one another at 300 yards. I've killed a lot of elk in my life, 25.06's, 243 Win's, 308's 06's, 270's, 35 Remington's, etc. but I have never had anything drop an elk like a Whelen. And besides, c'mon, it was invented by the first Colonel, not to take anything away from the 2nd Colonel.
 
Really, this choice comes down to factory vs. reloading. If you're going to reload it, .338 has more bullet choices. If you're going to buy factory ammo, .35 Whelen has more ammo choices. It's that simple.
 
I will not get caught again like we all did after Newtown.
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Elmbow I didn't get caught. I am loaded to the gills with reloading stuff, 22 ammo and lots of black powder and lead.. I learned my lesson about 1994 with the "Primer Scare".:D

But you are 100% correct on several points. One, have supplies on hand like you will never be able to buy them again. And two, I don't think there is a hog alive that needs a 338 or 35 whelen. But there is not a thing wrong with wanting a new gun in a new caliber. I'm all up for that.;)
 
Ratshooter, agreed on the philosophy of being prepared, you said it well.
Don't know nuttin about pigs, never hunted them, but there was a time in my youth when I was a small bore light fast maven and would gladly tell anyone who needed my opinion that a 25.06 was the cat's meow for anything from coyotes to elk. I wized up somewhere along the road to old age, maybe Bob Hagel and Tim Sundles influenced me, and nowadays, while I consider a .270 WSM squirting out 140 grain high bc bullets @3200 fps as the shizzle for Great Basin muleys, I consider it a pipsqueak when it comes to wapiti. Love the smackdown of those 35's.
 
I have heard it said that "the .35 Whelen is SO GOOD there is only one way to improve it... Neck it down to take .338 bullets...

The .338 has a better selection of better constructed bullets, higher sectional density, for any given bullet weight a higher ballistic coefficient but slightly less frontal area...

All adds up to very little difference...:D But there are those that argue anything...:rolleyes:

T.
 
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I have heard it said that "the .35 Whelen is SO GOOD there is only one way to improve it... Neck it down to take .338 bullets...
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That depends if you are talking bullets or boolits. The 1:14 twist rate for a standard 35 Whelen is advantageous when shooting cast bullets at higher velocities.

If you assume, based on the large amount of empirical evidence available, that the upper RPM limit for a cast bullet is 140,000 rpm then you get a velocity limit of 1944fps for a 1:10 (common for 338) or 2,333 fps for a 1:12 twist (less common but available), but a 1:14 twist (35 Whelen standard) goes to 2722 fps. Generally accuracy is degraded before you reach the 140,000 rpm limit, so you can see why having a 35 Whelen would be advantageous over the 338-06 if you wanted to use cast bullets at any point.

With jacketed bullets you get more options with .338 bore, with 35 bore you get much better cast bullet options if you are into bullet casting. "Better" is always in the opinion of someone looking for a specific use.

Jimro
 
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