32acp Plunk test, 50% FAIL

3

308Loader

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Loading up some 32 auto this morning and ran into a problem. Set up the die and sized 50. Setup the expander and ran them through, setup seat and crimp die, added primer powder and bullet and seated the bullet. Plunk tested first few and all was well with the world. Completed the batch of 50 and plunk tested all of them. 19 of them failed, would not go plunk in my Beretta 81. Separated the ones that didn’t fit and found that 1 of the 2 head stamps that I am loading was the issue. The Aquila brass went perfectly PLUNK into the chamber. The PPU brass did not. I could get lockup when I sent slide home, with out firing the extraction was very difficult. Only tried it once and had to push the slide back off my desk top to eject the round. I am at a loss as to what is going on here. Didn’t separate by head stamp when sizing, pure chance 19 of them were PPU, 31 were Aquila (roughly 50% right). Both were sized to the same setting of the same die at the same time. All were expanded with the same die at the same time. All were seated with the same bullet and crimped with the same die at the same time. Only the PPU failed.

Did some measuring and the PPU at the case mouth with bullet measured .338 and the Aquila measured .334 (average). Obviously this is the issue, Just don’t understand why they came out this way. Any way to “fix” this after being loaded? Constructive thoughts would be appreciated.

Bullet im using is Berrys 32 cal (312) plated bullets.
 
Ive loaded PPU brass in my 308....it always causes the bolt to be hard to close. Other brass loaded on the same dies, the bolt closes easily.
 
I'm not sure if such is available in .32acp, but a Lee Factory Crimp Die will iron out any bulges in the brass and should let them pass the plunk test. I don't have to use a LFCD on my .32acp reloads, but you may have a tighter chamber in your Beretta then on my Kel-Tec. On a side note, I have to use the LFCD on my .45acp reloads. My 1911 has a Kart barrel with a tight chamber. If I don't iron them out, I have feed problems.
 
Wow, micro reloading. Going to try .25 Auto next?

Plunk Testing:

The solution to chambering problems is to determine the cause:

Take the barrel out of the gun. Drop rounds in until you find one that won't chamber. Take that round and "paint" the bullet and case black with Magic Marker or other marker. Drop round in barrel (or gage) and rotate it back-and-forth a few times.

Remove and inspect the round:

1) Scratches in the ink on bullet--COL is too long

2) Scratches in the ink on edge of the case mouth--insufficient crimp

3) Scratches in the ink just below the case mouth--too much crimp, you're crushing the case

4) Scratches in the ink on case at base of bullet--bullet seated crooked due to insufficient case expansion (not case mouth flare) or improper seating stem fit

5) Scratches in the ink on case just above extractor groove--case bulge not removed during sizing. May need a bulge buster.
 
Here's the thing: while it is possible to 'fix' some of those PPU brass cartridges, either by running them thru a crimp die or even shortening them a tiny bit, you should throw away the PPU brass as soon as practical, because they will always be a problem.

I had the same issue loading 9mm with PPU brass. In the end it's not going to be worth all the hassle. Just chalk it up to a learning experience and get rid of the PPU stuff. Btw, there's at least one other brand of brass that has the same issues; I'll have to check my notes sometime in the next few days to get you the exact headstamp, but PPU is not the only culprit.
 
Likely the failures are caused by thicker brass walls. If this is the case, then using the Lee die will also resize the bullet, inviting leading and degraded accuracy. IMO, dump the PPU brass after firing.


.
 
there's a reason most of us separate our brass by headstamp. Not so much during sizing, as everything is sized to the same outside dimensions.

But after that, it can matter.

I don't do PPU brass, so I cannot speak to that, directly, but I can tell you that if Brand A and Brand B differ significantly in thickness, you won't get good results running both through the same die settings.

Dies can be set to do EITHER, but not both, if the difference is too much. Thickness or length, same result. In reloading, one size does NOT fit all.

Do you have a "Hammer type" bullet puller? That's the "fix" I would use for the oversize loaded rounds.
 
Thanks for the replies all. I’ve loaded many mixed lots of brass and never had a failure like this as regard to one head stamp being useless. PPU isn’t bad brass in other calibers I load for. Guess Ill do some home work on the differences in thickness. I recently started loading for the 32, I only have brass from the fired factory ammo I bought, so just the 2 head stamps. I will sort them out by head stamp and go from there. FYI I am using the LEE carbide die set.

As far as micro reloading goes, yes I would load 25 if I owned one. Made a deal with the wife, if I bought all of this equipment, I wouldn’t buy factory stuff off the shelf. New Cal aside just for the brass and experience if need be. If any one knows where I can get a lot of once fired 32ACP brass for a good price let me know.

"these days I hate to throw away usable brass." me 2
 
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I’ve never had to use a Lee FCD on 9mm ammo, but use it always on 38 and 357 cast bullet loads. That said, get one and try it out on your 32 reloads. Doesn’t cost much, and these days I hate to throw away usable brass.
 
I would remove the depriming pin and just the kiss the round. Sounds like you are real close and it might not take much.
 
I would double check your OAL, as I had a similar issue with a CZ 70. The ogive of my RLN bullet required that U seat it deeper in order to chamber and extract easily. I ended up buying a Redding taper crimp due to apply a final crimp which solved the last of my issues.
 
308Loader,

I got some former-iron-curtain-country 45 Auto hardball one time at a gunshow. The bullets were all about 0.449" (11.4 mm) and the case necks were so thick I could not seat a cast .452" bullet in them and still have it chamber im my 1911's successfully. The mouth would wedge into the taper of the chamber before it reached the end. It cycled fine with its narrow bullet, but that was all it was good for.

So this can be the design of the brass that is to blame. If you ever buy any PPU 32 Auto, pull a bullet and see if it isn't .309 (8.85 mm). A lot of European 32 ACP gun barrels, like the old French MAB police pistol, have groove diameters that size, so it's not surprising that a brand from across the pond might use bullets that size. When they do, the maker thickens the brass to ensure it can still headspace on the case mouth and can't wedge into the throat.

So, the big question is, do you have enough of this stuff to warrant getting an inside neck reamer to thin it far enough for your seating depth? It can be done, but seems like a lot of work.
 
Found this on another site:

"Starline and USA specification brass (Rem, Win, Hornady) are made for .312 bullets. Euro brass is usually made for 309-.308 bullets. Malfunctions may occur in tight chamber with euro brass and USA bullets. For euro brass I use a Lee sizer to reduce down the Barry's bullets to .309.
Take these comments for what you will. This is how I do it."

As usual nick seems to be spot on. Havent had time to do my own measurements, but i think this is the issue.

Thanks all
 
Why just the PPU cases? Everything else being equal as far as setup of dies.
Click to expand...

We will never know (I know that is not very satisfying).

Reality is 25/32/9mm are small cases and finicky. I can't get most of my 9mm to work in my Wilson case tester (they all fit fine in the gun chamber so Wilson is a waste of time)

Some brass would fit in the Wilson, most no.

So, avoid PPU. I don't say that to be a smart ass. You probably will never figure it out and are wasting your time. I have 1000 rounds of 9mm I picked up at the range. I can pitch any head stamp that is an issue at no loss.

Over my years as a mechanic/technician/engineer (no letters) I had more than one occasion I had something quit working. Almost always it was not done to spec (not grounded right, weird control logic in the circuit etc. or per boilers cracking, we tried all the remedies, none worked and no one could explain it.

My answer was to wire the circuit to standard circuit for that type and no more problem

Manager would ask, why did it quit working?

My answer was, do you want me to spend days trying to figure it out or do you just want me to do what I am going to do anyway and wire it to a standard that we know works each time every time? (and anyone can trace a failure and fix it!)

The boilers we replced with a non cracking type. We could spend 20k (more than once) for an engineer who still could not tell us what the problem was.

Or we can take that 20k and buy a 100% guaranteed solution.

Life is to short, go with brass that works and pitch the PPU.

note: I used PPU in 30-06, 7.5 Swiss, 308. I have no issue with it and find its as good as Lapua. Yea I know its heresy. Shot thousands of rounds of it and no issue, no failures etc.
 
RC20,

I think if you read the two previous posts, we found the problem: Euro-spec vs. SAAMI.

Here's the CIP spec for 7.65 Browning (aka, .32 Automatic). The SAAMI spec is here (enter page 44 into Acrobat reader; page 35 the way SAAMI counts it). The drawings do not match. The CIP spec allows up to 0.0132" neck wall thickness for their 0.309" max bullet diameter, while the U.S. spec allows up to 0.012" neck wall thickness for our 0.3125" max bullet diameter. When you double the difference, the European case design with a US bullet seated will average about 0.0024" wider at the case mouth.


Aarondhgraham,

"Plunk" is onomatopoeia for the sound a properly fitting loaded cartridge makes if you drop it nose-down into a pistol chamber. It occurs because the mouth of the cartridge case hits the step in the chamber that corresponds to a case mouth. If the cartridge is too fat to chamber it stalls on the way in, fails to make that sound, even if it ultimately wedges all the way to the end of the case portion of the chamber. Such cartridges will not feed reliably. If the cartridge is too narrow, it drops in but fails to make a clear plunk noise if it wedges into the throat of the barrel. So the plunk test is a fit-for-feed-and-chambering test. It is conducted by removing the barrel from the gun and holding it muzzle-down during the test so you get a clear drop of the cartridge while you listen for the "plunk".
 
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