32-7.65...?

C

cdoc42

New member
I always pick up my brass at the range, and after all these years, I constantly ask myself why I continue to do this since I have more brass than I can ever use before I start reloading in heaven one of these days. When I shoot .45 ACP, 9mm, and .380 Auto, I have 3 plastic bags for each case to save myself the time to separate them later.

So today I dumped the .380 Auto brass on the table after I cleaned them, and found 3 cases with another case stuck inside. My first thought was the larger case was a 9mm with the .380 having moved inside during tumbling.

Nope. The 3 cases were "32 7.65 Browning." You learn something new no matter how old you are. What the hell is that!? A quick search in Lyman's 50th Edition revealed the answer.

It is a .32 ACP, also known as a 7.65mm Browning, even though that metric size is 0.312 inches. Available pistols include the Beretta Tomcat and Kel-Tec P-32.

Does anyone out there shoot this caliber?
 
The 7.65mm Browning is the European name for the .32 ACP.

Introduced in 1899, the number of pistols chambered for the round is legion.

Just about everyone who made a small pistol from 1900 on, made one in .32/7.65 Browning. Some are famous, some very obscure.

I had a Savage 1910 in .32ACP, and still have a Mauser HSc in 7.65mm Browning (with Waffen Amt proofs) so used during the Nazi era.

Perhaps the most famous is the Walther PPK, because it was featured in the James Bond books (and early movies).

The .32 ACP is a semi rimmed case, meaning there is a small, rim that is slightly larger in diameter than the head of the case. The first three pistol rounds Browning designed were all semi rimmed cases, the .25, 32, and .38 ACP. Supposedly, Browning designed them with a rim to headspace on, because at the time he was not convinced that headspacing on the case mouth would be reliable. There is no written record from Browning himself stating that was the reason, but after the 9mm Luger proved headspacing on the case mouth would work reliably (1902) the rounds Browning designed after that were rimless. The .45ACP (1910) and the .380ACP (1912).

I reload for the .32ACP, tis tiny making things awkward to handle, but other than that, its straightforward the same as other semi auto pistol rounds.

As to the 7.65mm not exactly matching the bullet or bore size, its a common thing with cartridge names, both in the US, Britain and in Europe. About the only part of the name you can count on as matching the gun/bullet size is the first digit. :D

Europe already had a 7.62mm Luger and a 7.63mm Mauser as well as some lesser known rounds in the same caliber range. Pretty sure FN chose 7.65 simply because it was different and no one else had yet used it in a cartridge name. ;)
 
The name of the cartridge is 32 Auto(matic) in the USA. The "ACP" (Automatic Colt Pistol) moniker applies to the pistols, not the ammo, despite Colt's marketing efforts of the past.
See here for American pistol cartridge names:
https://saami.org/wp-content/upload...rfire-Pistol-Revolver-Approved-12-13-2022.pdf

I shoot a 32 auto, though rarely. I also do not know why it's a 32 when bore diameter is .304" and groove diameter is .311". Maybe someone didn't like the idea of naming a cartridge a 31. <shrug>

The CIP's specs don't include quite precisely 7.65mm for any dimension, either. HOWEVER, their spec for bore (not groove) diameter is 7.63mm, with a +0.02mm/-0mm tolerance. So, a max bore diameter of 7.65mm is allowed. I don't claim that's the reason for the name, it just works out to 7.65mm. 44AMP's suggested reason(s) make more sense than that, to me.
 
I believe the ".32" and "7.65" labels came about to avoid confusion with 7.63 Mauser (.30 Mauser) and 7.65 Parabellum (.30 Luger); as well as some other short-lived .30 and .32 caliber cartridges of the time.

Visually, they are quite different. But on paper or in conversation, easily confused.

I see now that 44 AMP already touched on that.

I shoot a small amount of .32 Auto, though most of it is import ammo stamped with one of the following:
"7.65 Corto"
"7.65 Krz"
"7.65 Br"
"7.65 BrC"
"7.65 BrS"

I have a friend who, barring a 9mm carry gun, has a eclectic handgun collection made up entirely of .32 Auto pistols and revolvers (.32 Auto and .32 S&W). He leaves a trail of .32 Auto in his wake.
 
If you look at the names of cartridges and the actual dimension of them, you will find a LOT of rounds, rifle and pistol, where the name has only a casual relationship to the dimensions. Sometimes the history of the round explains this, and sometimes it is as simple as the maker picked a name no one else was using because they thought it sounded good and would help marketing.

Why are some rifle rounds .30, some .300 and some .308, when the bullets and barrels are all the same dimensions??

Some are named for the groove to groove distance, some for the land to land distance and some are just a close number that sounded good to the maker.

With pistol rounds, particularly revolver rounds, there's some history involved that explains why our "38s" are actually "35s" (or .36 if you round up just a bit), and our 44s are actually 43s (.429) and it goes back to the early days of cartridges when they were loaded with heel type bullets, and the diameter of the bullet was the same as the diameter of the case. Back then, .38s actually were .38s, etc.

When the bullets were changed to fit inside the cases, their diameter was slightly reduced to allow for that. But the names stayed the same, and that was what the buying public was used to, and expected.

And, bottom line, it is about what uniquely identifies your round, and what sells it.

Why is it a .32 and not a .31? No idea, other than I don't think anyone has done a .31 since the Colt Patterson, and .32 is a "magic number". :D
 
I'm quite fond of .32s in just about any flavor.

I have two .32 ACPs and am always looking for more, and I have a butt load of revolvers chambered in .32 S&W, .32 S&W Long, and .32-20.

I just love that the .32s are so polite when you pull the trigger.
 
Indeed.
They're just so pleasant to shoot.
Even the angry ones, like .32 H&R.


(But not .327 Federal. That one is beyond angry. Easy to shoot. Just hard too much noise and blast.)
 
I've seen .32 Auto also labeled as "7.65 Browning" and "7.65x17" depending on who is making the ammo. It's not to be confused with 7.65 Parabellum (aka .30 Luger) or 7.65 French Long which are different cartridges entirely. To further confuse things, .30 Super carry uses the same diameter bullet as .32 Auto and most other common .32 caliber handgun cartridges, but apparently Federal's marketing department didn't like the ring of ".32 Super Carry."
 
I have a Walther PPK in 7.65 Browning / 32 Auto ...
the proper name is 32 Automatic not 32 ACP ... if you want to get technical ...
I have no idea why !
I also reload and cast bullets for it .
Gary
 
That would be news to UMC who headstamped .32 ACP.
Savage even had their own line of ammo, .32 ASP or SAP.

Seems 7.65 Browning should be best, the round first seen in the 1899 FN.

The pre-Covid patent for .30 SC was headed 8mm. But they Americanized it in production.
 
Originally posted by gwpercle
the proper name is 32 Automatic not 32 ACP ... if you want to get technical ...
I have no idea why
Click to expand...

I suspect it has something to do with "ACP" being the abbreviation for "Automatic Colt Pistol." There's been a longstanding reluctance within the American firearms industry to put a competitor's name on one's products. This is why many cartridges have multiple or shortened names like .30-30 instead of .30 WCF (Winchester Center Fire) or .44 Magnum rather than .44 Remington Magnum. Even more recently, some makers chose to label their guns as simply ".40 Caliber" rather than stamp them with ".40 S&W". I suspect that many makers started labeling .32 ACP, .380 ACP, and .45 ACP as XX Automatic or XX Auto to avoid putting Colt's name or an abbreviation for it on their products.

Originally posted by Jim Watson
The pre-Covid patent for .30 SC was headed 8mm. But they Americanized it in production.
Click to expand...

That would seem even more confusing to me as most 8mm calibers use .318", .330", or, most commonly, .323" bullets none of which are used by .30 Super Carry. I would think that, if the cartridge were given a metric designation, 7.65 Super Carry would make more sense but then again accuracy and logic aren't always considered in marketing.
 
Webleymkv said:
I would think that, if the cartridge were given a metric designation, 7.65 Super Carry would make more sense but then again accuracy and logic aren't always considered in marketing.
Click to expand...

Anyone else for a 7.77 Super Carry? Maybe get Boeing's stamp of approval. :)
It's not like marketing never overstated size anywhere, .44 Magnum for example.
 
…And the 1910 was also available in 9 mm Kurz (380 Auto) to bring the range find back full circle. Archduke Ferdinand was assassinated with one.
 
"the proper name is 32 Automatic not 32 ACP ... if you want to get technical ...
I have no idea why"

If you want to get TRULY technical, the PROPER name of the cartridge is the 7.65x17.

Why?

Because it was first introduced, and commercially named, in Europe, in the FN M1900.

It didn't hit the shelves in the United States until 1903 with the Colt M1903, the pocket hammerless.

Which leads to another very early headstamp found on cartridges of the time -- .32 CAPH, for Colt Auto Pistol Hammerless.
 
(Anyone else for a 7.77 Super Carry? Maybe get Boeing's stamp of approval. )

i'm in lets develope a .432 cal bulleted cartridge with 375mag capacity shell and call it the 777bp for boing pistole :)


oh wait, that's putting someones name on our product.... never mind.
 
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