I recently picked up some once fired .308 brass from a friend. He was saving it to reload but decided he didn't have the time. I've sorted it by head stamp and am going to start sizing. All of this brass was fired from an ar10, I will be loading for bolt gun. Do I need to small base size it the first go around? Or will just full length sizing do?
.308 range brass
- Thread starter 308Loader
- Start date
Whether or not you need a small base die will depend on whether or not the brass came out of the AR10 chamber exceptionally expanded or stretched. That will depend on the gun's chamber size and timing. The best advise I can offer is, in order to avoid overworking the brass, use a standard sizing die first and see if the resized brass chambers freely in your rifle afterward. If not, run the test cases through the standard die a second time to see if that fixes it. If not, then think about a small base die.
Resizing to fit a case gauge will guarantee the brass will fit in both guns without making individual chamber-specific case sizing efforts. If you want maximum accuracy and minimum brass hardening from reworking during resizing and to maximize case life, then you'll get onto segregating the brass used in each rifle and minimally resizing for the individual chamber.
Can't say about the crimp without seeing the brass. More commercial ammo seems to have them these days, but you can learn to spot them. They look like a thin ring concentric with the primer pocket perimeter and slightly recessed.
Can't say about the crimp without seeing the brass. More commercial ammo seems to have them these days, but you can learn to spot them. They look like a thin ring concentric with the primer pocket perimeter and slightly recessed.
308Loader said:
Yes it is. I've loaded a ton of commercial FC (I acquired about 800 pcs free) and typically the primer pockets will loosen up after only a few loadings. Some last longer than others but just be vigilant. Do NOT be temped to run loaded ammo with a "soft" primer fit. You will combustion blast etch your boltface and it's not worth ruining a bolt over a cheap piece of FC brass.
Kevin Rohrer
New member
Federal brass is unsafe to reload. Please send it to me and I will dispose of it for you (after test-firing it in my rifles several times).
Ahhh, Kevin your funny.
Tried the full length die on a few, 7 of 10 wouldn't fit the case gauge. It has been my experience that if it wont drop in flush with my gage it makes for a hard close of the bolt in both my rifles. Small base sized 200 of them last night, quite the work out on my arm and the press. Should I anneal the cases after this kind of squashing?
Tried the full length die on a few, 7 of 10 wouldn't fit the case gauge. It has been my experience that if it wont drop in flush with my gage it makes for a hard close of the bolt in both my rifles. Small base sized 200 of them last night, quite the work out on my arm and the press. Should I anneal the cases after this kind of squashing?
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"...wouldn't fit the case gauge..." Forget the case gauge. Does it fit the chamber? Nothing else matters. A regular FL sizer die will return the case to SAAMI spec regardless of the size of the AR's chamber.
"...read that the fc brass is soft..." Federal brass is known to be softer than other brands. That only means it doesn't last as long before it needs annealing.
"...anneal the cases after this kind of squashing?..." Nope. Annealing is done when you get one cracked case mouth/neck. Small base dies only size a couple thou more than a regular FL die.
"...read that the fc brass is soft..." Federal brass is known to be softer than other brands. That only means it doesn't last as long before it needs annealing.
"...anneal the cases after this kind of squashing?..." Nope. Annealing is done when you get one cracked case mouth/neck. Small base dies only size a couple thou more than a regular FL die.
I find it WAAAY easier to use a case gauge, T.O.
But of course, you are correct in that ultimately, if it fits the chamber, it's good to go.
Be sure that you have the die turned down enough. I was doing 223 with a small base die, it chambered great in my AR's, but not my model 700. I checked with a chamber gauge, and the loaded rounds did not fit. As it turned out, my resizing die needed about a third of a turn down to contact the shell holder more.
"...wouldn't fit the case gauge..." Forget the case gauge. Does it fit the chamber?"
As stated earlier " It has been my experience that if it wont drop in flush with my gage it makes for a hard close of the bolt in both my rifles."would that not mean that the case is too big for my chamber still?
This is just the first step in my brass reclamation. I thought after sizing my brass to fit the gauge, and both rifles I would segregate the brass to each rifle and then "bump" as needed for their individual chambers. 7 of the first 10 did not fit the gauge or the chamber of one of the rifles. When closing the bolt of my savage it took extra force and left a mark on the case head. For the FLRS die I'm using the Hornady American die, for the SB die I'm using the RCBS. Both dies are set to manufactures suggested setup to FLRS cases, not set for a chamber at this point.
Thanks for the replies all.
As stated earlier " It has been my experience that if it wont drop in flush with my gage it makes for a hard close of the bolt in both my rifles."would that not mean that the case is too big for my chamber still?
This is just the first step in my brass reclamation. I thought after sizing my brass to fit the gauge, and both rifles I would segregate the brass to each rifle and then "bump" as needed for their individual chambers. 7 of the first 10 did not fit the gauge or the chamber of one of the rifles. When closing the bolt of my savage it took extra force and left a mark on the case head. For the FLRS die I'm using the Hornady American die, for the SB die I'm using the RCBS. Both dies are set to manufactures suggested setup to FLRS cases, not set for a chamber at this point.
Thanks for the replies all.
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You guys can have your federal brass. Take it for what it's worth, but .308 once fired brass is easy and cheap enough to find that I probably wouldn't bother.
This is coming from someone who loaded many rounds using federal brass. After the 2nd firing i had around a 10% cull rate (loose primer pockets). 3rd firing about 25% of what was left. Less than half survived to see a 5th firing. Not worth my time unless I have a lot of it and can load it once, shoot it, leave it laying,and forget about it. Which is about what federal brass is good for.
This is coming from someone who loaded many rounds using federal brass. After the 2nd firing i had around a 10% cull rate (loose primer pockets). 3rd firing about 25% of what was left. Less than half survived to see a 5th firing. Not worth my time unless I have a lot of it and can load it once, shoot it, leave it laying,and forget about it. Which is about what federal brass is good for.
The case gage does not measure the diameter of the case, I suggest a chamber gage. I do not have tomato stakes, I have no problem using a barrel as a chamber gage, I have no problem cutting a barrel in short pieces; I do not use the chamber of a barrel as thought it was some kind of L.E. Wilson case gage, I prefer case head protrusion instead of the case head being flat with the end of the gage.
Chambers have case head protrusion and they have unsupported case heads.
F. Guffey
HOW DO THEY DO THAT?
I do not expect an answer but if I have cases with soft case heads I expect a manufacturer to have a recall and I expect to be warned not to use the cases. Cases leave the manufacturer with a worked hardened case head. A case that has loose primer pockets after the first firing are cases that can result in catastrophic case head failure.
And then there is that part where reloaders have loose primer pockets; how do they do that? If my primmer pocket expands because of soft brass the flash hole also expands in diameter and then there is the diameter of the case head. If my case heads are soft the head of the case gets crushed and the case head increases in diameter; at the same time the thickness of the case head decreases between the cup above the web to the case head.
AGAIN: I purchased some magnificent (I though) cases from an iron and metal yard. new, unfired and some were pull down. I loaded 80 of them and had gotten to the third firing when I was advised there was a recall. I did not need the cases and I did not believe the recall was necessary but there was a big chance all of the cases were not suspect. I moved the cases to the collectable drawer and started on something else. I have found small groups of these cases when going through components that belonged to old friends that died. One friend: if there was a way to blow up the case head on a suspect case head he would find it; I added the cases to the collectable drawer.
F. Guffey
F.Guffey said:
F.Guffey, I should have been more clear with my wording. When I commented: "Do NOT be temped to run loaded ammo with a "soft" primer fit I was referring to RELOADING subsequent FC casings that exhibit a soft feeling primer press fit. NOT factory loaded ammo.
Me too, I have no ideal how the case head got soft after the first firing. In my opinion the case head started out as being soft. That is the reason I suggest reloaders measure before and again after.
I have no problem measuring the case head diameter, when firing factory loaded ammo I expect case head expansion. In the old days case head expansion was .00025 for the first firing.
F. Guffey
That is definitely not common of federal. Try .001 to .002. Alas my caliper doesn't measure 10 or 100 thousandths. Still, a reading of .002 rounded would be at least .0015... 6 times your reported normal case head expansion.
Which is why I don't use Federal brass if I can help it. I need 8mm brass. I'm aware I could buy it outright, but it's expensive and I have swap fodder ala 7.62 M118 match (no cannelure in the brass) that I'm willing to do a 2 to 1 for. Alas, the only bite so far was a guy who had a hundred or so rounds of federal 8mm brass. I offered him a 2 to 1 swap in reverse... 2 rounds of 8mm for 1 round of 7.62. He didn't take me up, and I understand, but this is how bad I loathe federal brass.
They make pretty good loaded ammo though. Got to give em that...
I do not need 8mm57 cases, if I did each case would cost me one cent each. Back when reloaders were finding fault with everything I purchased forming dies and I searched for cases. I found 2,200 once fired 30/06 cases that no one wanted to clean. And in my travels I stopped to visit Pat's reloading in Ohio. He made me a deal on pull down 30/06 NM cases for 11 cents each. I purchased 2,000 cases. And now I have 16 forming dies,
And I have FC cases, my FC cases must have been made before FC forgot how to form brass. I also have FC cases that can be picked up with a magnet.
F/ Guffey