.308 Fed. Gold Medal 175gr.

H

HighGround

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I have noticed most people always use the 168gr. over the 175gr. sierra matchkings. Why? In a 1/10" twist wouldn't the 175gr. perform better? Anyone have any first-hand experience with the 175's over the 168's? What's the accuracy difference? Which of the two will shoot better in a 1/10" twist at long range? What about the new 155g sierra matchking palma load or the 165gr. nosler ballistic tip? Also, do these bullets (matchkings) fragment, mushroom, expand, or simply pass through their target? I'm interested in trying them out for long range paper punching and coyote huntin. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
PS Does anyone know what the matchkings would do to a coyote or similar size game? (clean hole, large exit wound etc.) Thanks again.
 
From my understanding, the 175 performs better at 600 yards plus. The 168 has been around alot longer, giving it a pretty well established reputation and load data, whereas the 175 is a couple years old. I think the military is now employing the 175s as well. Personally I have not tested between the two, but the 168 gr. works pretty well for me.
Sierra does not advise using these (Matchkings) for hunting, it does not perform as a hunting bullet should. Sure it may get the job done, but it does not give the desired effect of blowing a large hole in a target, expansion is small, something that is a problem for chest shots for snipers with this round. I read a memo from the IWBA about this problem, where it mentioned the fact threats are engaged with target ammo and do not always provide instant incapacitation. The matchking is not a true hollowpoint, but an open tip bullet. The open tip is a result of covering the bullet with the copper jacket.
I have not shot the 155 gr Palma load, because I do not shoot Palma matches, plus I have not seen it in any stores. I saw it at a show, but the guy wanted about $22.00 a box for Federal Match ammo.
However, the 165 gr Nosler is great! I took two deer with it, and yes the desired effect took place. They were shot from a 20" bbl. Savage. Both deer took severe damage from the wound, the one dropping on the spot and the other bled out within 100 yds. A very good hunting bullet, in a bullet weight that could be argued as an general purpose bullet.
I can also recommend the Sierra Gameking in 165 gr. This is a pretty close version to the Matchking, built for hunting. From my big .308, a PSS, the group was right 1" and low 1", give or take a tad. The gun is zeroed for the 168 Matchkings.
A buddy of mine took a deer with a load I made up with the Gameking. It dropped him on the spot, and I think the wound was larger than the Nosler. Very effective bullet.
 
The Federal 175's work equally well in the 1 in 12" twist rifles too. I shot a .192" 3 shot group at 100 yards with my 700 and factory Federal GMM. It's a good shooter. I also started reloading with the 175's with equal results. I don't know if I would use them for hunting because that's not what they are meant for but I think some ballistic tips would fit that role for you. They are very accurate and will do better on game. Hope this helps.
 
Nosler Ballistic Tip

fed168:
However, the 165 gr Nosler is great!
Click to expand...
Is that the Nosler Ballistic Tip ammo? While it's designed as a hunting bullet, Nosler's quality control is so good that some reloaders I've talked to claim they're every bit as consistent as the Sierra MatchKings. And the 165 grain Nosler BT has the exact same ballistic coeficient as the 180 grain Sierra GK. The Nosler should make for an excellent long range load. A target-quality bullet with the terminal performance of a top-notch hunting bullet, with a killer BC to boot. When I get my .30-06 tactical rifle project done and my reloading bench set up, this bullet (in both 165 & 180 grain) is at the the top of my list.
 
Ought Six, yes, the bullet was a Nosler Ballistic Tip, but from a Remington factory load.
I have loaded some 165 Nosler BTs in .06 for my Win Featherweight, and achieved about 1.25 MOA or so from the factory rifle.
 
As a matter of fact, you will need a "longer" twist rate for heavy bullet. Several benchrest smiths will suggest with at lease 1:12, or even 13 & 14 for "great" accuracy.
If your main purpose is hunting, stick with ballistic tip. Matchking is quite unpredictable upon impact. Sometimes it will fragment, sometimes it won't and pass thru your target completely. I've been using 175 for some while. Both my 700's have 1:12. There is not much difference in short (<400 yds) range. The main advantage is at ~800 yds and beyond. FYI, two of my shooting bodies have GREAT result using 155 palam in their stock PSS's @ 200 yds. They are consistantly <.5" @ that distance (I was a bit upset about that, my 175 is a little bit large than that on average with complete custom work. They haven't tried at any distance greater than that, so it's hard to tell)
 
Hmm, I believe you need a faster twist for heavier bullets. When rebarrelling a 1/12 it's always a good idea to go with a 1/10 or 1/11 twist for the 175s. Most .308s come with 1/12, but 300 Mags have the 1/10s because they are used with 190s or heavier.
 
Heavier bullets require a tighter twist, and 175s are better performers out of my 1-in-10 than 168s. The 175 is a slightly longer bullet than the 168, and benefits from a slightly tighter twist. 1-in-10 or 1-in-11.25 will work for you. Try the Greenhill formula. As to ballistics, you will notice a shift in POI between 168 and 175 at 300 yards. In performance, the Fd175GMM is almost identical to the military LR stuff.
 
I have used both in my Rem 700 VS.

I have two boxes of the moly coated 168 and 175's. the 168's work pretty darn good out to 600 and that is as far as I have shot them. I have shot the 175's at 800, 900, and 1000. They performed great!

I have also shot a coyote with a 168 HPBT match bullet. I never recommend that again. It could have been because my shot was low, but what happened was he started doing the death roll they usually do. Then suddenly as coyotes also do, he jumps back up, and takes off. I watched him run for over 1000 yards. He just had a minor limp. I know I hit him pretty decently in the leg, but it was not enough to put him down.

Same exact senario a couple months later in the exact same spot. I once again shot low on a coyote (I have since raised my zero to 200 yards), but this time I was using a Speer 125 grain TNT HP. The coyote only went about 6 yards. I went out and finished him off because he had this enormous exit wound on the other side of his leg where I shot him low.

Every coyote I have shot since with the Speer 125's has either died on the spot, or gone about 10 yards and I went over and finished him off. If you are going to hunt coyotes, buy a 500 pack of the Speer 125's. I also use the Hornady 110 gr VMAX for plinking squirrels and I have also taken a coyote with the 110's with good results.

I too will stand behind the Sierra 165 hunting bullets. I loaded up some 165 grain Spitzer Boat Tails and they have really nice groups with great stopping power.
 
Thanks everyone for your imput. I was also wondering if a 1/10" twist can handle lighter bullets 165g and below as accurate as a heavier bullet? If the matchkings are that bad at killing a coyote or other game, why does a military sniper use match bullets for killing enemies? Also, looking at factory ammo, what is some of the most accurate expanding boat-tailed ammo for the .308 that will shoot good in a 1/10" twist and also give me match grade performance? Anyone ever try federal's deep-shok? It comes in 180g and is boat-tailed. Seems good for huntin long range and also shooting paper. It looks like it would be worth trying but is very expensive at $23 a box. I'm new to the .308 world so bear with me on my questions. I just got a savage 10FP and I'm tryin to get as much info on ammo as I can before I buy. I was also looking at BSA scopes, any good, or will I get what I pay for? Thanks.
 
The military uses match bullets because they provide the best accuracy. For the longest time the military used ball ammo, but it was still match grade, known as M118 and M118LR. The new ammo is M852 with the Matchking.
Since the Matchking first came on the rifle scene back in the late 50s, it quickly became recognized as an extremely accurate bullet.
It could be said that the military sniper uses this as it is the issued ammo, remember he is the low man on the food chain, decisions are made at a level without his input. I do not know when or why they changed ammo, if someone here does, I would like to know as well.
Matchkings dominate the sniping community in the military as well as LE. The new 165 gr bonded ammo from Federal does show promise though.
 
Actually Fed the M118LR is the newest ammo for the military. It's replacing the M852 which used the Sierra 168grn Matchking with the M118LR which uses the 175grn Matchking. The military up until the 80's I believe was restricted from using the Sierras because they were "hollowpoint" rounds and aginst the Geneva Convention. So they used the M118 which had a 173grn FMJ round but it's quality started to slip and they got permission from the powers that be to use the 168 Sierra and the M852 was born. But then they wanted a round that would reach out an touch just a little farther than the 168 and stay supersonic past 1000 yards so the M118LR was developed by the Marine Corps I believe. Like it was said earlier it's pretty close to the Federal GMM 175's. Hope this helps.
 
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