I own a Tikka T3X Compact .308 bolt action rifle for deer hunting the Northeast. It has a 20" barrel with 1:10 twist. I was shooting 1" MOA 150 gr. Sako Super Hammerhead lead core ammo which performed well on deer but has been discontinued. I would like to make a switch to all copper bullets such as Barnes TTSX or similar for more knock down power. The question I have is what grain would perform best for my situation where most shots are less than 100 yards - most are 50 yards or less? Any recommendations on factory ammo and what should I zero my rifle for? Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
You should upgrade or use an alternative browser.
.308 Copper Ammo selection help
- Thread starter Kdamery
- Start date
From what I've seen and read all of the copper bullets perform about the same on game. Just experiment with some and see what shoots best in your rifle.
My only experience is handloading Barnes bullets and shooting at the range. I've not taken game with them yet. Any of the copper bullets do tend to penetrate deeper than conventional bullets and go a long way to help cartridges that are borderline powerful be more effective.
If I were elk or moose hunting then copper bullets would be something I'd consider. But your 308 is more than adequate for what you're hunting without the need or the extra expense of copper bullets. I' think you'd be just as well off finding another conventional bullet and spend less money.
If you do want to try copper it is generally advisable to drop down 1 or even 2 bullet weights lighter than you would use with conventional bullets. A 130 gr 308 bullet is more than enough for deer. I wouldn't advise anything heavier than 150 gr in 308. Copper bullets need to impact at faster speeds than conventional bullets in order to expand. The heavier 180 gr copper bullets really need to be fired at magnum speeds. Even 165's are starting to be a little heavy for 308.
My only experience is handloading Barnes bullets and shooting at the range. I've not taken game with them yet. Any of the copper bullets do tend to penetrate deeper than conventional bullets and go a long way to help cartridges that are borderline powerful be more effective.
If I were elk or moose hunting then copper bullets would be something I'd consider. But your 308 is more than adequate for what you're hunting without the need or the extra expense of copper bullets. I' think you'd be just as well off finding another conventional bullet and spend less money.
If you do want to try copper it is generally advisable to drop down 1 or even 2 bullet weights lighter than you would use with conventional bullets. A 130 gr 308 bullet is more than enough for deer. I wouldn't advise anything heavier than 150 gr in 308. Copper bullets need to impact at faster speeds than conventional bullets in order to expand. The heavier 180 gr copper bullets really need to be fired at magnum speeds. Even 165's are starting to be a little heavy for 308.
My concern is that everything I have read states the 1:10 twist with 20” barrel requires heavier grain bullets like 165 gr. and up to shoot accurately though I assume they are referring to lead bullets.
My own experience and understanding is that faster twist likes longer bullets. I don't think the weight of the bullet makes as much difference as the actual length. The copper bullets tend to be longer than a jacketed lead bullet of the same weight, so they do well with longer bullets.
Berger bullets has a twist rate calculator that allows you to input bullet characteristics and outputs whether your bullet should be stabilized in your barrel:
https://bergerbullets.com/twist-rate-calculator/
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Isn't that putting it backward? I have always understood it to be that longer bullets like (need) faster twists. In .308 with bullets in the range of 130-grain to 170-grain, is a 1:10 twist likely to be "too fast" for anything? Can a solid copper bullet possibly be over-stabilized? It's not like 55-grain 5.45x45 AR-15 ammo that may start to come apart if fired through a 1:7 barrel.ghbucky said:My own experience and understanding is that faster twist likes longer bullets.
Is it?
Last edited:
Isn't that putting it backward? I have always understood it to be that longer bullets like (need) faster twists.
Possibly, although it seems to be a bit of a chicken and egg thing, imo.
I know from my experience that a 55gr .224 copper barnes does not shoot as well out of my 1:8 barrel as a 63 gr Sierra Spitzer. It does shoot better than a 55gr jacketed however.
Pretty limited sample size there, for sure. But take a look at the berger calculator. It has held true in my experience. When I input the 55gr fmj parameters for my barrel, the calculator tells me that is a no go, and indeed they produce 6+ moa groups.
"...heavier grain bullets like 165 gr..." It's not about the weight or twist, but the .308 loves 165 grain bullets.
Solid copper bullets do not use lead cored load data. Said data isn't hard to come by though. Barnes has data on-line(that's the same for all their 165 and 168 grain bullets. Partial to IMR4064 myself.). Hodgdon has 168 grain(close enough. 3 grains won't matter.) TTSX BT data on line too.
The OAL will not be the same either. A copper bullet is less dense than a lead cored so the bullet itself is longer.
"...everything I have read states..." You reading about solid copper bullets or just bullets? Ain't the same thing.
What you'll see is a wee bit of difference in velocity as both Barnes and Hodgdon tested with 24" barrels. Not enough to matter though. Load for accuracy not velocity.
Solid copper bullets do not use lead cored load data. Said data isn't hard to come by though. Barnes has data on-line(that's the same for all their 165 and 168 grain bullets. Partial to IMR4064 myself.). Hodgdon has 168 grain(close enough. 3 grains won't matter.) TTSX BT data on line too.
The OAL will not be the same either. A copper bullet is less dense than a lead cored so the bullet itself is longer.
"...everything I have read states..." You reading about solid copper bullets or just bullets? Ain't the same thing.
What you'll see is a wee bit of difference in velocity as both Barnes and Hodgdon tested with 24" barrels. Not enough to matter though. Load for accuracy not velocity.
I hunt north central PA with a .308 and Barnes TSX bullets. My shots are also nearly all sub-100yds, so I'll tell you what I've learned.
First off, Barnes recommends a minimum impact velocity of 1800fps for their TSX bullets, but I (and others) have found 2000fps to be safe insurance for full expansion.
Second, normally you can use lighter than standard bullet weight because copper retains nearly 100% weight compared to lead's 70%-ish. So a 130gr Barnes would retain about 130 grains where a 165gr lead bullet would retain about 110 grains.
Third, at the close ranges we shoot in the northeast, I've found that these 130gr & 150gr (at sub-50yds) are going so fast that the impact tears the petals off and you end up with a .308 wadcutter exiting the deer. I've had deer with pencil hole entrance and exit wounds.
Fourth, my best results have come from moving up in bullet weight because the bullets are constructed heavier and the petals stay intact. I now use Remington HTP Copper 168gr TSX BT. These have given exit wounds that are obviously full expansion.
First off, Barnes recommends a minimum impact velocity of 1800fps for their TSX bullets, but I (and others) have found 2000fps to be safe insurance for full expansion.
Second, normally you can use lighter than standard bullet weight because copper retains nearly 100% weight compared to lead's 70%-ish. So a 130gr Barnes would retain about 130 grains where a 165gr lead bullet would retain about 110 grains.
Third, at the close ranges we shoot in the northeast, I've found that these 130gr & 150gr (at sub-50yds) are going so fast that the impact tears the petals off and you end up with a .308 wadcutter exiting the deer. I've had deer with pencil hole entrance and exit wounds.
Fourth, my best results have come from moving up in bullet weight because the bullets are constructed heavier and the petals stay intact. I now use Remington HTP Copper 168gr TSX BT. These have given exit wounds that are obviously full expansion.