.308 Armor Piercing Rounds

J

Joseph

New member
I've been weighing the benefits of the mini-14 over the M1A under the topic of international sailing, and one of the pluses for the M1A was the .308 AP round.

However, I was just talking to Georgia Arms and the fellow told me it is illegal to buy .308 in AP because there are handguns which use that caliber, while it is legal to get .223 in AP.

Does that argue for the .223??
 
Well, you cannot actually get .223 Ap either. You can get SS109 ammo which is more accurately called an "enhanced penetration" round with a small steel insert behind the nose. The ATF has ruled it to not be AP in nature and is therefore legal.

The SS109 ammo requires a 1 in 9" twist rate to stabilize properly, though, so make certain your firearm of choice has the appropriate twist rate.

Although this is highly illegal in nature, I have heard of people reloading .308 with pulled M2 .30-06 AP projectiles. For my part, the legal implications far outweigh any benefits of having/using such ammo. FMJ will go through most ordinary targets just fine!
 
You could a saboted SS109 bullet for .308. I saw an ad in SGN for the plastic discarding sabot. I think this is called a SLAP round or something like that.
 
I think a local gunstore was selling Armor Piercing bullets in .30 caliber? Maybe they were just full-metal jackets, I'd have to check. You would have to reload to make use of these though, as they are selling only the bullet not the completed round. Hmmm, if ya live in GA; I'll give ya the number to the gun store and you can ask them if these bullets will meet your needs.

DaHaMac

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Know Yourself, Know Your Weapon, Know Your Enemy; then Know Victory!
 
I'd sure take a .308 over a .223, insofar as penetration of hostile boats' vital parts.

So far as I know, the only visible difference among different military bullets is the paint job on the nose. So, if there's no paint on the nose, it must be plain old ball ammo, right?

FWIW: In testing a .30-'06 against some WW II armor plate of some 5/16" thickness, I found that GI Ball would not penetrate; they made a crater about 5/8" across and bulged the back side. Handloads in both 110-grain and 150-grain Hornady Spire Points would penetrate, blowing about a 5/8" hole through the plate. That's the velocity-difference effect, I imagine. I didn't have any AP to try.

You could always try loading some bullets in the weight range of 125 grains to 140 grains; load them to "Don't use these too often" pressures. I imagine that they would be rather a surprise to the uninitiated. After all, they aren't gonna be used on a daily basis.

:), Art
 
It is against federal law to import any armor-piercing ammunition that may be used in a handgun. State laws vary as to possession or use. For example, in Florida it is illegal to load AP ammo into a handgun. It is still legal in a rifle. Check your local and state laws but the feds didn't make AP illegal, just expensive.
 
Ok here is the straight skinny 30 cal AP ammo.

If its is loaded in a 30-06 it is legal if it is loaded in anything else it is NOT legal.

It a specific exemption for 30-06 ammo only and it is listed as such in the BATF regulations.

"NOTE: THE FOLLOWING CARTRIDGES HAVE BEEN REMOVED
FROM THE DEFINITION OF ARMOR PIERCING AMMUNITION:

5.56MM (.223) SS109 and M855 Ammunition, Identified by a green
coating on the projectile tip.

U.S. .30-06 M2 AP, Identified by a black coating on the projectile tip. "

Read it for your self http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/legal/armor.htm


[This message has been edited by Alan B (edited April 12, 2000).]
 
Thanks, all.

Alan B, thanks for the website.

I guess that puts me into picking up an old M1, which I've thought about anyway through the CMP, or the Mini-14, which although it sounds like a fun weapon, may not be the one I want if I'm being pursued at sea.

Roon
 
Well, the old Garand is hard to beat. There are some caveats on reloading, but selecting a powder with the proper pressure curve can let you get pretty good velocities out of it, over and above the 2,700 ft/sec GI.

Actually, for your intended purpose, where the odds are very much against any extended amount of shooting, regular hunting ammo or hot reloads won't hurt the gun.

Wuz somebody shooting at me in my boat, I'd worry more about tracers than AP, anyway. Fuel tanks, doncha know. :)

Regards, Art
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Art Eatman:


Wuz somebody shooting at me in my boat, I'd worry more about tracers than AP, anyway. Fuel tanks, doncha know. :)


[/quote]
That is true about the tracers, but did you ever see the sparks that are created when AP hits steel? It loooks like the 4th of July!! It will Certainly set off gasoline, now diesel fuel is a question mark. My bet would be load one tracer one AP, one Tracer one AP etc. One thing to remember today, many patrol boats are constructed of marine grade aluminum. Any decent HP rifle round will play havoc on that stuff, but if you are popping .30 AP at them it will do a job on the powerplants, possibly leaving the boat dead in the water. Oh and remember age and treachery will overcome youth and enthusiam anytime anyplace :D!!


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Carlyle

[This message has been edited by Southla1 (edited April 13, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Art Eatman:
Well, the old Garand is hard to beat. There are some caveats on reloading, but selecting a powder with the proper pressure curve can let you get pretty good velocities out of it, over and above the 2,700 ft/sec GI.[/quote]

I do know that slow burning powders are a "no no" because they cause a higher than normal gas port pressure which may affect the timing and bend the op rod. I also THINK that a powder in the burning range of either H-4895 or IMR-4895 is acceptable. Art if you dont mind please E-mail me if you have any other good advice. It has been almost 35 years since I was shooting a NM Garand in matches (damn telling my age again :rolleyes :), and I certainly loved that rifle. My CMP Garand was ordered about 3 weeks ago so should be arriving in a few weeks hopefully! :D :D :D

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Carlyle

[This message has been edited by Southla1 (edited April 13, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Southla1:
I do know that slow burning powders are a "no no" because they cause a higher than normal gas port pressure which may affect the timing and bend the op rod. I also THINK that a powder in the burning range of either H-4895 or IMR-4895 is acceptable. Art if you dont mind please E-mail me if you have any other good advice. It has been almost 35 years since I was shooting a NM Garand in matches (damn telling my age again :rolleyes: ), and I certainly loved that rifle. My CMP Garand was ordered about 3 weeks ago so should be arriving in a few weeks hopefully! :D :D :D

[/quote]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Joseph:
However, I was just talking to Georgia Arms and the fellow told me it is illegal to buy .308 in AP because there are handguns which use that caliber, while it is legal to get .223 in AP.

Does that argue for the .223??[/quote]

I can't see how, since there are a number of pistol .223's. There are AR pistol configurations, as well as Contenders, etc.
 
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