303 British Info??

stuholmes

Inactive
Hi All! I'm new to TFL and I'm trying to find some info on a 303 British. Mostly I'm wanting to replace the butt stock and forearm for this rifle. I know a picture is worth a thousand words, and I'll get one posted. I'd like a place to start looking, or someone to contact about some parts. Mine does not have the wood to the end of the barrel. Anyway, I'll post some pics and get some ID markings on here soon.
Thanks in advance for any and all help.
 
.303 British is a cartridge, not a name of a rifle.

The vast majority of rifles chambered in .303 British in the United States today (I'll assume you're in the USA) are some variation of the Short Magazine Lee-Enfield, which was the standard service rifle of Great Britain and its colonies- Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, India, etc.- for most of the 20th century, including both world wars. It's a safe assumption that your rifle is one of these.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lee-Enfield

Early rifles were marked "SHT.M.L.E." or "S.M.L.E." on the receiver wrist in front of the buttstock and above the trigger guard. Some time after WWI, the Brits changed the designation system to numbers, with the No.1, No.4, and No.5 being the most common types. (No.1 corresponds to the original S.M.L.E. model.) The rifle number is followed by a "Mk" or mark number, which designates the sub-type, which is sometimes followed by an asterisk or "star" that indicates a further modification- e.g. No.1 Mk III* is spoken "number one mark three star."

FWIW the word "Short" does not refer to the magazine, but rather to the overall length of the entire rifle, to differentiate it from the longer initial model colloquially known as the "Long Lee".

Many, many surplus Lee-Enfields have been modified from their original military configuration- or "sporterized"- to better suit the desires of post-WWII American (and Canadian) hunters. The quality of such conversions varies widely, although it tends to be poor, as the rifles were once considered nearly worthless and were often modified in the owner's garage using hand tools. A fellow I met at a gun shop related the story of buying his first centerfire rifle- a surplus No.1- for $8 in 1962 out of a 55gal drum(!) at an East Dallas hardware store. :)

You can find loads of info about these guns on the Googles. ;)

THAT SAID...

There are a few .303 British rifles around that are NOT Lee-Enfields. These generally fall into 3 categories:
  1. The British Pattern 1914 rifle, a military bolt-action design roughly modeled after the Mauser 98 and used as the basis for the U.S. M1917. This rifle was originally intended to replace the Lee-Enfield, but this did not happen for various and sundry reasons. These are sometimes found sporterized.
  2. The Ross rifle, a straight-pull design designed and produced in Canada, and used as the standard Canadian battle rifle early in WWI until it was realized that various design flaws made it totally unsuitable for trench warfare. Most Ross rifles in circulation are military surplus, and are often found sporterized, but a handful of commercial Ross sporting rifles were sold here as well; these are generally quite valuable today.
  3. An American or British commercial bolt- or lever-action sporting rifle produced in the caliber, usually pre-WWII. The most common type is the Winchester Model 1895, but it's a stretch to describe these as "common"- more like "somewhat less rare". ;) Compared to former Commonwealth military rifles, these are needles in the haystack.
 
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Thanks for the info. Yes, I am in the U.S. I have been looking at Google and other searches, there is tons of information out there.
Sometime before I got this rifle, someone had modified the stock, and the butt stock is falling apart. So I was hoping to find a replacement stock for this rifle. You would think as many of these rifles that were manufactured, a person would be able find parts easier. I guess that's the fun challenge of fixing old stuff.
 
The exact model description should be marked on the rifle. Look on the "metal wrist" or on the left side receiver flat.

You're looking for something like:
"No4 Mk1"
or
"ShTLE III"

There may also be more "stuff' like a star(*) a crown of some type & possibly a "VR", "GR", & a date.

Sorry to sound like a nit picker but subtle differences can have non interchangeable stocks so we need to know EXACTLY what you have & that will be in 3 parts. Part one a "Number" frequently a No1, or a No4. Then a "mark" "Mk", finally a "star" (*), or series of stars.

Just to confuse the issue a bit the early rifles were known by letter designations, not the later No, Mk (*) system, so "MLE", "CLLE"' "SMLE", & so on might be what is marked.

Finally be aware that it is possible that you actually have a factory hunting lee enfield in .303 as well. Just because the wood is shorter than the barrel does not mean its been butchered by "Bubba". I'd seriously suggest getting a positive, detailed item before doing anything to the wood because there are some tricks to working on different versions without accidentally harming the equipment.
 
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Have you tried Numrich? They normally have plenty of Lee-Enfield bits.

http://www.gunpartscorp.com/Manufacturers/SMLEAlsoSeeEnfield-33496.htm

However, given that you may be looking for an entire stock set, you may want to search on GB or eBay for a set that's been taken off a single gun, to ensure that all the wood looks the same.

Words of warning:
  • Removing the stock bolt requires a really big and long flathead screwdriver, and a tough handle helps. Why a tough handle? The bolt is often too tight to easily turn by hand, in which case I recommend removing the forestock, clamping the receiver in a padded bench vice, and simultaneously pressing inwards on the screwdriver handle with one hand while turning it with Vice-Grips using the other hand. You REALLY don't want to slip and bugger up the bolt head! :eek:
  • If the handguards have been discarded and you want to put them back, pay close attention to the barrel bands and screws in the parts diagrams. The barrel bands hold on the handguards, so you'll need all of them. Also, be aware that L-E's use "weird" screws- they aren't standard modern hardware you can buy at Lowe's or Ace, and the threads don't correspond to standard U.S. commercial taps and dies. Also, the screws are almost all different from one another, so you need to be careful not to mix them up and damage something during removal or installation.
  • If the gun is a No.1 / SMLE, you may need the muzzle cap as well. Many sporter conversions involved discarding it or (worse yet) hacking away parts of it.
  • Although they look identical externally, the No.4 Mk I and I* used a different forestock from the Mk 2, Mk 3, Mk I/2, and Mk I/3. The trigger of the Mk I and I* attaches to the stock, whereas the trigger of the later models attaches to the receiver, and the holes through the stock at the aft end of the receiver are correspondingly different.
 
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wogpotter said:
Finally be aware that it is possible that you actually have a factory hunting lee enfield in .303 as well. Just because the wood is shorter than the barrel does not mean its been butchered by "Bubba".
Good catch, I had kinda forgotten about those. :)

FWIW I've never personally seen one, but they're out there.
 
Great info guys, thank you. I'll do some checking for the markings. I'll post some pics later so you can see what I have. And, don't feel bad about nit picking, I don't know much about the gun other than I shot it a bunch when I was a teen, and went through my two brothers. Now I got it back and would like to fix it up.
 
If synthetic doesn't turn you off I got an ATI stock off of Amazon for a lot less than ATI wanted for one.

 
wogpotter, the markings I see are GR, then BSA Co, SHT LE III* with a crown on the wrist band. I cannot read the date due to some damage. I tried to load some pics, but my computer is not cooperating.
 
I had one in high school that I "sporterized" with a turned down barrel, cut down magazine with a block off plate and a set of Fajen stocks. It looked like a Remington with the black end cap on the forearm stock. I loved that gun, took many deer with it. I mounted a Redfield scope on it. If I recall the scope mount is a side style mount for those rifles
 
GR, then BSA Co, SHT LE III*
OK, you have a Short Model Lee Enfield No 1 Mk3 (star) also known as a SMLE or in affectionate slang "SMELLIE". It was made By Birmingham Small Arms Co. (BSA). It was originally a military rifle, not a civilian one although they existed. You can tell because of the crown & "GR" stamps.

"GR" is King George V of England, so the dates will be those of his reign, some time between 6th May 1910 & 20th January 1936. The (*) indicates it was a slight modification to the earlier Mk3 (no star) model. Some features were deleted for simplicity of manufacture, or because they were thought of as obsolete. The single loading platform should be gone, but there should be a slot for it cut into the right side of the receiver, the windage adjustment (if fitted at all) of the rear sight should be pined in place & there might be an "extra" sight position partially removed from the left of the receiver & the wood forend.

Measure the inside length of the barrel from the closed bolt face to the tip of the muzzle. Do this BEFORE you order any parts! It should be 25.2 in (640 mm). This is real important as many were shortened when sporterising & the wood & end cap came right up to the muzzle, so if it's been shortened at all you can't restore the wood because the muzzle will be down inside & so dangerous.

Google "SMLE No1 MK3*" for pics of how it should look because I cant post pics on here due to copyright problems.

This link should take you to a good source for parts.
https://www.libertytreecollectors.com/productcart/pc/viewCategories.asp?idCategory=62
 
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Kinda-sorta almost.:)
Savage made the later No4 Mk1 & No4 Mk1* rifles.
Because of the change in nomenclature mentioned earlier they weren't referred to as SMLEs any more, but as No1 MkIII or No1 MkIII* & the No4s were never referred to as SMLEs for the same reason.

The No4 Mk1* was a simplified version to save time & among the changes was a 2 groove (instead of 5 or 6) barrel & some other changes. As far as I remember the twist was the same, just the number of grooves were reduced.
 
I'm not sure. I do remember many posts querying how to measure diameters with odd numbered lands, so that indicates many different "flavors" of rifling.

Technically though none of them were "real" Lee Enfields (watch the fight start now) because the Enfield pattern rifling specified the No of land & grooves!:eek:
 
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