300WSM Dropped from my list

R

RickD

Moderator
Having given strong consideration to the new 300 Winchester Short Magnum for my soon-to-be new tactical rifle, I have decided that I, or it, is ahead of its time. That is, all the pieces of the 300WSM puzzle are not yet in place... and may not be anytime soon.

The fact that only Winchester and Browning currently chamber rifles for it (I'm a lefty), is one problem. I am also considering getting a bullet drop compensated scope (BDC), and I wonder how long it will take scope makers to come up with a suitable cam for whatever (for the lack of a better word) "match" ammo they decide to come up with for the 300WSM. Then there is ammo price and availability. The lack of forty years of loading data for the 300WSM is one consideration. And reloading dies, as well.

Too many variables against it.

So, I am now back to consideration of the venerable .308 and 300 Winchester Mag as chambered for a Savage rifle (likely, at this point) probably the 10/110 FP.

I'll be taking out a friend's friend's 300WinMag to the range next week to see if I feel like putting up to the recoil of that cartridge. If I don't like it, that places me with the .308, and 300 yards less range. I want those extra football fields.

So I am trying to weigh the plusses and minuses of these two cartridges. Cost for factory ammo. Cost of reloading. Accuracy in crosswinds, etc.

What about competition? Competition is the best way to force a person to get better, or get out, or to otherwise understand one's rifle. I am sure their are many comps for the .308. What about the 300WinMag?

Lastly, since I will be doing most of my shooting from a bipod, so I am wondering if I should even go with a left-handed bolt. Being a lefty in a righty world, I have become accustomed to working the bolt with my weak hand since it rests underneath the butt or in the crook of my arm. I also have grown used to seeing the magazine, action, and chamber of a right-bolted rifle as it rests on my left shoulder.

Working the bolt off-hand, especially with a large scope will prove problematical, but that might not be an issue, generally.

I think you guys know where I am coming from, so let the advice flow freely.

Rick
 
I recently acquired a .300 WinMag, in the form of a Rem 700 PSS.

The ballistics from the short mag should be identical, though slightly more efficient, and recoil very slightly less.

I think the cartridge should be great, but (rather like the .450 Marlin), it remains to be seen whether it will gain major acceptance. If it does, I'm certain I'll have one oneday.
 
RickD if you don't mind a little weight take a look at a Savage 112fvlss. My son has a 112fvss in 300 Win Mag and it is a very good shooter. The weight makes the recoil very mild. The heavy 26 inch barrel make it easy to shoot offhand. The weight really works with you to hold steady. He has a set of bipods and this really makes it a joy to shoot. When we have time to really find a load that it likes I think it will be a very fine shooter.
 
gunmart if i may be so bold, what exactly is wrong with Savage? I have owned and shot them for years without problems and they always did the job for me. Please enlighten us.
 
Gunmart, two years of commentary here at TFL sez "Savage Good!" by about 95:5 margin...And the only negatives have concerned the trigger--which is very "fixable".

Just read a couple of articles on the .300 WSM. It is ballistically identical to the .300 WinMag, but with about 10%or 11% less powder: Case efficiency. At this stage it's guessing, but given the comparison of the .308 vs. the '06 for target accuracy, it is felt the same might hold for the .300 WSM vs. the .300 WinMag or other long-case cartridges of that performance.

FWIW, Art

OT PS: My "Cheerios" box included a little #19 Dodge model car! "Made in China", it sez.
 
As usual, this has degenerated to a my manufacturer is better than your manufacturer thread. As far as I am concerned, Remington is out since after their refusal to sell their PSS to mere "civilians" they are right behind Ruger, Slick&Weasel, and Colt, in my book.

That being said, perhaps I should ask about what general qualities I should look for in both a tactical rifle and a tactical scope which I will be lugging around the field for various purposes.

Let's focus on the BDC scope (for which I don't want to spend more than a few hundred bucks). Which one(s) would you recommend?
 
> As far as I am concerned, Remington is out since after their refusal to sell their PSS to mere "civilians"

Remington's "restriced sale" rumor was recently (a few months back) discussed on the Prodigy Shooting Sports BB. Charlie Petty has "a few" good contacts in the industry. I feel confident that these rifle's are not "restricted" but only sold to LE Distributors. From there the Distributors sell to whom they want... LE or not.
 
LE distributors only?

The Camel's nose under the tent, at the very least. Remington must be punished. It starts with me.

Rick

Now, what about a tactical BDC scope?
 
I personally don't like BDC scopes as they limit you to a specific bullet (Ballistic Coeficiency). While you can shoot others, and their trajectory will be close, it will not be the same.

IMO a scope with Target Knobs is more versital. You can zero it for match grade, and then work up cards for other types/wts of ammo.
 
Perhaps I am confused, here. Don't the BDC scopes have separate elevation and BDC knobs?

If thatis the case, you could set the BDC (as a course adjustment) and then use the elevation knob to click a few (rather than a whole bunch) up or down from that particular BDC setting.

Rick
 
The Leupold M3 scopes is a single BDC/Elevation

knob. The elevation clicks are 1 MOA and have two numbers on the dial. The bottom numbers indicate the number of MOA clicks. The upper numbers indicate the range in hundreds either in yards or meters depending on the caliber.

As far as the 700P as being for LE - Only, that's just Remington being politcally correct. The distributors don't care who they're selling the rifles to. If you want to pick up a 700P in 300 WinMag just contact KY Imports or Hoplite and they'll hook you up quick.

Instead of the 300 WSM, why not the 6.5x.284? An excellent 1000 yd + round. Flat trajectory, transonic at 1000 yards, and less recoil than the 300 WinMag.

Good shooting.

Ken
 
Rick,

The only BDC Scopes I've looked at (and remember I don't like them so I don't look at them much) only had one knob that is cammed to a specific bullet.

IMO with target knobs you just go to the range and make up data cards for the different types of bullets you plan on shooting. I've got a Leupold Mk4 M-1 on my rifle and I did just that. For hunting I set my zero at 200 yds (which is down from my normal match 300 yd zero). With the cross hairs set for a 200 yard zero with the bullet I'm using I use the MilDot above for my 100 yard zero and the one for below for my 300 yard zero. Works real well. ;)
 
Schmit,

Assume for a moment that your hunting load is nearly identical in performance to your target load (I hope I can accomplish this with mine).

Since a mil-dot is a mil-dot is a mil-dot...could you not leave the zero at 300 and go one dot above for 200 and two dots above for 100? Just wondering...the idea being that you have the most precise zero at the longest distance and any loss of precision in zero at the closer distances where the apparent target size (like a deer) is larger.

Mikey
 
RickD,

Was just paging through one of my Rifle Magazine's (can't recall if it was Rifleshooter or another) and I saw an add for a company called something like "Reamer Rentals". Anyway - that's how I found them on the web... http://www.reamerrentals.com They are now stocking the 300WSM reamer, along with two wildcat off shoots that were inevitable if you think about it.

Having said that, you are now only limited by your imagination as far as getting a rifle chambered in this caliber in a lefty version. Take that tired old Ruger/Winchester/Remington/whatever in left hand version, get a good quality barrel blank from your favorite maker - rent the reamer and get exactly the rifle that you want.

Did you mention dies? RCBS will make you any die if you supply a few fired cases and perhaps a loaded round. The cases? Form your own if you can't find a ready supply locally.

My point here is that just because brand X doesn't have it in your particular version, doesn't mean that you can't get it anyway. People have been doing this for ages, infact, this might explain the existance of the 300 WSM in the first place. The cost might end up being more then a factory offering in the long run, but you are getting what you want. And, you are going to have a unique piece, that is different the the run of the mill. It's something to think about.

Unkel Gilbey
 
No, that doesn’t sound right.

A Mil equals 3.6” @ 100 yds, 7.2” @ 200, 10.8” @ 300, etc. If you did that and used 1 dot above for 200 yards you would be 7.2” lower and if you used 2 dots for 100 you would be 7.2” lower (both figures relative to 300 yard zero). Bullets arc.

I’m sure you could zero @ 300 and then figure exactly where the bullet path is for 100 & 200 in relation to the dots and then just hold under for those but I don’t think the trajectory will work out to be on the dots. With the bullet I’m shooting IIRC it is 3.2” high @ 100 (first mil dot above cross hairs) and 9.7” low @ 300 (top of first mil dot below cross hairs)… cross hairs/bullet zeroed @ 200.
 
Schmit,

Just for kicks I ran a trajectory calc for 168 gr Gold Medal with a 300 yard zero. While not confirmed by actual firing, it came up with 0 @ 300, +6.2" @ 200 (one mil-dot above (7.2") would be within 1" of actual POI and +5.4" @ 100 (two dots above is a little low and one dot is a little high - but acceptable for deer sized game). Using the dots to bracket the POI would be almost perfect.

I think I'll try it at the range.

Mikey
 
Anyone know of a freeware version of software which would allow for ballistic calculations like this? I don't do it enough to warrant spending money on a program so don't need anything overly sophisticated.

Tim
- - -

Schmit,

Just for kicks I ran a trajectory calc for 168 gr Gold Medal with a 300 yard zero. While not confirmed by actual firing, it came up with 0 @ 300, +6.2" @ 200 (one mil-dot above (7.2") would be within 1" of actual POI and +5.4" @ 100 (two dots above is a little low and one dot is a little high - but acceptable for deer sized game). Using the dots to bracket the POI would be almost perfect.

I think I'll try it at the range.

Mikey
 
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