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3006 brass ?
- Thread starter 06shooter
- Start date
condor bravo
New member
No there will not be any specified minimum or maximum weights for 06 brass (or any others). Is there a particular reason for asking? If looking for heavy, durable brass, I would recommend Federal.
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I pick up free rangebrass and I dont worry about the weights, and how much water they hold, what I look for is brass that hasnt been realoaded, and I can usually tell by the primer color, and amount of soot in the neck. Only recently have I given sorting a mere thought. For what I need my ammunition to do, none of that weighing and water holding has any effect...
there will not be any specified minimum or maximum weights for 06 brass (or any others). Is there a particular reason for asking? If looking for heavy, durable brass, I would recommend Federal.
I'm new to all this and I'm just trying to cover every area of safety.
I know that lighter is thinner and thicker is heavier and lighter means more volume.
I thought maybe if there was a defect I could find it by weight when it comes to new brass.
Thanks ....
I'm new to all this and I'm just trying to cover every area of safety.
I know that lighter is thinner and thicker is heavier and lighter means more volume.
I thought maybe if there was a defect I could find it by weight when it comes to new brass.
Thanks ....
It is best to not mix brass. If you're working on mild to mid level loads and accuracy isn't critical then it won't be a problem. But if best accuracy is desired stay with one brand. Some guys weigh every piece of brass even among the same brand for consistency. Not me. I do use multiple brands, just not with the same loads. I may load 150's with Winchester brass, 165's with Remington and 130's with Federal, but keep them separate.
I don't think the actual brand matters too much, especially for most shooters. But when you start loading ammo even approaching max levels a load that is perfectly safe in Winchester brass might be a little too hot in Federal brass. Nothing wrong with Federal brass, you just need less powder as a rule to get the same speeds.
I don't think the actual brand matters too much, especially for most shooters. But when you start loading ammo even approaching max levels a load that is perfectly safe in Winchester brass might be a little too hot in Federal brass. Nothing wrong with Federal brass, you just need less powder as a rule to get the same speeds.
SAAMI leaves brass internals pretty much up to the manufacturer, except that when you look at the SAAMI drawing you see diameter limits. For the neck it is the range, for a case with a bullet seated in it, is the given number -0.008".
The military is different. They spec thickness and have brass hardness profiles. If you can find military brass, it is made to a narrower range than commercial brass is, though it still varies a few grains.
It used to be Peters .30-06 cases were as heavy as 215 grains. Today I mostly see it from about 185 grains to 197 grains. Figure it takes 15 grains of brass weight difference to have to change the powder charge 1 grain to keep pressure constant (reduce the charge with the heavier case). But because the dimensions of the heads differ, even that is only consistent ± about 20% of the weight difference, IME. Your best bet is to measure the cases you are using by weighing them before you take the primer out and seeing how much water weight they hold. The as-fired volume is what affects pressure.
The military is different. They spec thickness and have brass hardness profiles. If you can find military brass, it is made to a narrower range than commercial brass is, though it still varies a few grains.
It used to be Peters .30-06 cases were as heavy as 215 grains. Today I mostly see it from about 185 grains to 197 grains. Figure it takes 15 grains of brass weight difference to have to change the powder charge 1 grain to keep pressure constant (reduce the charge with the heavier case). But because the dimensions of the heads differ, even that is only consistent ± about 20% of the weight difference, IME. Your best bet is to measure the cases you are using by weighing them before you take the primer out and seeing how much water weight they hold. The as-fired volume is what affects pressure.
-CENSORED-Peters .30-06 cases were as heavy as 215 grains. Today I mostly see it from about 185 grains to 197 grains.-CENSORED- QUOTE] The nosler brass I have in 3006 are 179.0 + gr.
Thanks again !
nemesiss45
New member
Personally, i have sorted brass by headstamp and weight and water volume (alcohol volume actually) then i have meticulously weighed charges and seated bullets that were sorted by weight and bearing surface length. Then i took those out and shot them against mixed brass and bullets intentionally picked to have the most variance (though i was still meticulous about the powder). At the end of the day, i could not tell the difference in the groups (I'd have to go back to my files to see if there was any actual calculable improvement).... now, im no professional marksman, though i do alright, so im sure there is some merit to going through all that trouble. However, i will not be sorting brass or bullets for most of my guns.... but i still cant shake the itch to do it for that little impreceptable edge on one or two of my guns.
Long story short.... the case thickness is not going to make enough difference in chamber pressure to cause a problem.... unless you are way over safe pressure to begin with.
Long story short.... the case thickness is not going to make enough difference in chamber pressure to cause a problem.... unless you are way over safe pressure to begin with.
- cover every area of safety.
I know that lighter is thinner and thicker is heavier and lighter means more volume.
I thought maybe if there was a defect I could find it by weight when it comes to new brass.
I have heard that "military brass is thicker because it is heavier". the Internet is a good source for that kind of information 'useless'. The statement is half correct. The case head for 30/06 case heads is thinner. I have measured surplus case heads that measured .200" from the top of the cup to the case head. I have measured R-P 30/06 case heads, .260", meaning the R-O case head is thicker than the surplus 30/06 case head.
The surplus case weighed more than the R-P, meaning if the surplus case weighs more than the R-P case the surplus case body is thicker. This means nothing to anyone but the powder column for the surplus case is longer and smaller in diameter than the powder column is in the powder column of the R-P case. the powder column in the R-P is shorter and larger in diameter because the case body is thinner and the case head is thicker.
Safer?
I am not going to crush a case head, I have when testing suspect receivers, but if I do I will choose a case with a thick case head. I do not want the case body separating at the case head when crushing the case head.cover every area of safety
Many reloaders rendered their RCBS PPS scrap. None of them knew cases came with different case head thickness. The tools did not have a chance.
F. Guffey
there is no way for me to determine that by measuring
Everyone cuts them up and call it sectioning. I measure the thickness, and I believe you can also.
F. Guffey
This is over my head , what is crushing the head ?I am not going to crush a case head, I have when testing suspect receivers, but if I do I will choose a case with a thick case head. I do not want the case body separating at the case head when crushing the case head.-CENSORED-
Many reloaders rendered their RCBS PPS scrap. None of them knew cases came with different case head thickness. The tools did not have a chance.-CENSORED-
F. Guffey
Was the different thickness not working with the dies ?
Thanks
There's a difference in muzzle velocity and visible pressure indicators between .308 Win cases weighing 150 grains (WCC58 match brass) and 185 grains (some 7.62 NATO brass) with the same primer, powder and bullet loaded to the same OAL.
Sort by headstamp then 4-grain spreads and that'll do just fine.
Sort by headstamp then 4-grain spreads and that'll do just fine.
This is over my head , what is crushing the head ?
Was the different thickness not working with the dies ?
Thanks
06shooter, I am not the fan of reloaders taking the fast track from standing still and going straight into bench resting. My opinion there is a lot of ground to cover in between. When a case is fired the case head shortens between the top of the cup above the web to the case head. Before the Internet the acceptable level was .00025".
The .00025" was for comparison, the .00025" measurement was obtain by measuring case head diameter on factory ammo before firing and again after firing. The measurement was obtain by firing new unfired brass. When testing loads the reloader in the old days would load the fired case, fire and again measure the diameter of the case head. If the case head expanded more than an additional .00025" the load was higher.
Not a problem but firing the case with the same load 4 would not result in a case head expansion of .001". Brass work hardens, some believe they can fire a case once and then neck size it after the next 4 firings then start over by full length sizing. And I always ask "HOW?" The case has been fired 5 times.
Crush the case head: When the case head crushes or as I like to say "When the case head is hammered" the case head increases in diameter, and the primer pocket increases in diameter, and the flash hole increases in diameter.
Was the different thickness not working with the dies ?
The bottom of the case (case head) does not get sized, the case head is in the shell holder, the deck height of the shell holder is .125". Then there is a radius in the die opening. I have suggested the reloader insert the case head into the die first after removing the primer punch/neck sizing ball assemble. Most cases are able to be inserted into the die opening. cases heads that are too large in diameter to be inserted should be checked, reason? There is a good chance the cases have been hammered.
I have 30/06 RCBS dies that will not allow a case head to be inserted in to the die reversed. All case heads are too large in diameter, The die is not a small base die, that die does not like any case. It is a case sticking die.
F. Guffey
Case head hammering: I started using a 'new to me' Rock Chucker' number 5. I set it up, I checked cam over, noting, I checked the forward kick of the ram at the top, passed with no-load. I sized 110 30/06 R-P cases, what a pleasure. I sized 110 7MM Remington Mag. R-P cases, again the cases behaved like magic, AND THEN? I started on the 257 Weatherby cases, 150 if them. I started with RCBS #2 case lube, it was war, I did not know if I was going to get the cases back, it seemed the die wanted to keep some of the cases. I got the good stuff out, the die stopped keeping the cases but after sizing with the good stuff the cases require thereby.
The case bodies had expanded .010" in diameter half way up the case, the case head had expanded to the point the case would not fit the #4 shell holder. I could have used a small gasket cutting hammer to drive the case into the shell holder, most should understand that would not fix the case, and most should understand the case fit the shell holder the last time, meaning 25% of the cases were fired with loads that were heavy enough to expand/shorten the case head.
then there is the other problem with case head hammering/expanding, if the case is locked to the chamber when the case head shortens the case has no choice but to start separating between the case head and case body.
Luck? When tumbling the cases I checked progress, most looked like cases incased in mud, I got the sneaky suspension the cases were fired after sizing and loading without tumbling to remove the lube. I stopped and whipped down the cases with alcohol and then continued to tumble. this would account for the flat primers and case head upset and it would lesson the concern about case head separation.
I know, I can check with a 90 degree awl.
New to me: the Australians have a name for a boomerang that will not come back, they call it a stick. I have no name for a Rock Chucker that will not cam over. All of my presses that cam over are called 'cam over presses' before the Internet the cam over press was also referred to as being a bump press.
F. Guffey
The case bodies had expanded .010" in diameter half way up the case, the case head had expanded to the point the case would not fit the #4 shell holder. I could have used a small gasket cutting hammer to drive the case into the shell holder, most should understand that would not fix the case, and most should understand the case fit the shell holder the last time, meaning 25% of the cases were fired with loads that were heavy enough to expand/shorten the case head.
then there is the other problem with case head hammering/expanding, if the case is locked to the chamber when the case head shortens the case has no choice but to start separating between the case head and case body.
Luck? When tumbling the cases I checked progress, most looked like cases incased in mud, I got the sneaky suspension the cases were fired after sizing and loading without tumbling to remove the lube. I stopped and whipped down the cases with alcohol and then continued to tumble. this would account for the flat primers and case head upset and it would lesson the concern about case head separation.
I know, I can check with a 90 degree awl.
New to me: the Australians have a name for a boomerang that will not come back, they call it a stick. I have no name for a Rock Chucker that will not cam over. All of my presses that cam over are called 'cam over presses' before the Internet the cam over press was also referred to as being a bump press.
F. Guffey