.300 Win vs. .308 Win

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Dangus

New member
I know little to nothing of the former, and quite a bit about the latter. What can you guys tell me about the differences?

How much powder difference is there between the two. Are there taper differences, what is the typical round weight, and the velocities? Also, are there any military style semis that use the .300 Win?

Thanks in advance.

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
It's a really simple concept. Simply add 200 yards to the range of the .308 and the cartridges are identical. Don't get caught up in the differences in case style, bullet weight, and anything else extraneous. It's really not that different. The BAR is the only Semi-Auto out there that I can think of but it's not exactly a battle rifle.
 
FYI - McMillen made some SA .300 Win Mags for SOCOM troops. The base was a Browning (BAR) in a full length stock. Ugly is not a strong enough word.

Giz
 
I'd still like to know the exact technical specs of the differences. I am interested in that sort of thing, even if I never shoot the .300. I just wanna know about it.

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
Well Dangus, I'll give it a try. Both cartridges will shoot bullets of the same weight, albeit at different velocities.
This from the Nosler reloading manual #4. Using the most efficient powder for the 180 gr. bullet, the .308 has a max velocity of 2718 FPS from a 24 inch barrel. (most .308's I've seen have barrels of 22 inches or less.)
Frankly, I feel the 165 gr. bullet is a more efficient projectile for the .308.
The .300 Win. Mag. will push the same 180 gr. bullet up to 3160 FPS from a 24 inch barrel. With it's most efficient powder, the .300 will push a 220 gr. bullet to 2757 FPS, just slightly faster than the .308 pushes a 180 gr. bullet.
Just as an aside, the .308 can be loaded with a 220 gr. bullet for hunting in dark timber. I reached 2350 FPS with 220 gr. Sierra RN's in a Winchester Model 70 with 22 inch barrel. Accuracy was excellent at three-eights inch at 100 yards. Looks like a good heavy game load for thick brush to me.
Naturally, the .300 mag. has a longer range use, but I have never felt handicapped in any of my hunting when using a .308. My two longest shots on game ever, were made with the .308. 250 yards, and 427 paces, call it 350 yards, give or take a few.
I plan on an elk hunt this fall in Colorado, and I will take my .300 Win. Mag. My .308 Win. will come as well as backup rifle.
Let me know if you have any more questions.
Paul B.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by schlickenmeyer:
For the record, the AR-10 is a semi-auto .308 and I think the mini-14 comes in .308 as well.[/quote]

??? I was speaking of 300 Win Mag semi-autos. The Mini-14 does not come in .308 Winchester. (please, no posts about the prototype Ruger 308's)
 
My gunsmith friend Jim does not like the .300. He says that it eats barrels like crazy. Anyone care to comment on this?

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
I have shot over 1700 logged rounds with my .300 Sendaro .So far I havent had a problem with erosion , the gun is still very accurate. A few weeks ago I did a chamber cast with Facsimile and the rifling and throat still looked good.

Some facts about the .308 vs the .300 These come from the Hornady 3rd edition reloading manual.

These are but a few combo's.
.308 with a 180g bullet with 48.4g of WIN760 for a velocity of 2600 fps. This is a maximum load.

.300 Win Mag with a 180g bullet with 71.5g of IMR 4350 for a velocity of 3100 FPS. This is also a maximum load.

You can see that the .300 pushes the same bullet 500 fps faster but it does it with considerably more powder.

As a point of intrest, the good ole 30-06 maximum speed for a 180 g bullet is listed as 2800 fps. Just 200 fps faster than the .308. These are reloads. Factory ammo lists the .308 at 2700fps and the 30-06 at 2750...just 50 fps faster.

Hope this helps..
 
Anyone know what the lightest that is slug recommended to be loaded in a .308 weighs?

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I twist the facts until they tell the truth. -Some intellectual sadist

The Bill of Rights is a document of brilliance, a document of wisdom, and it is the ultimate law, spoken or not, for the very concept of a society that holds liberty above the desire for ever greater power. -Me
 
SFAIK, the lightest commercial bullet in 30-caliber is 100 grains. The various 110-grain bullets are very effective on varmints, but will possibly blow up and make a large surface-wound on such game as deer.

I have swaged down the 80-grain .32-20 bullet for my .30-'06; it's rather devastating on varmints. :) (It will disassemble buzzards and jackrabbits into component parts.)

I've noticed a Phil Sharpe load of a 74(?)-grain pistol bullet in the '06 ahead of an inordinate amount of 2400, with a MV of some 3,880 ft/sec.

In general, such questions as .308 vs. .300 Mag, etc., are most easily answered by going to any book of reloading data. You can directly compare the various velocities and bullet weights, as well as comparative energies. If you're not a reloader, go to any gun store and merely browse a manual for a couple of minutes...

FWIW, Art
 
McMann Industries is now converting the standard M1 Garand from 30-06 over to .338 Win mag. This being possible, I would also think it would be possible to rechamber this rifle into the .300 Win mag too. That would give you another option for a semi auto. They have their own web sight: www.mcmannindustries.com. It's an interesting concept. It's not some prototype either that no one can get. These are available if you have the $$$$'s to do it. I have a .308 & a .300 Win mag in bolt guns. There are considerations to review for the heavy bullets in .308 vs .300 Win mag. If your distance to impact is far away, the heavies won't expand as readily as the lighter weight bullets as they are designed for heavy game. This being the case, then low velocity of the .308 will greatly limit your range than that of the .300 Win. But with normal bullets designed for deer, 150's to 165's, it won't really matter as both cartridges are superb. Of course, you also have to deal with the increased recoil & cost to reload the .300 Win mag. The increase per round is factored in the cost of higher powder usage in the .300 vs the .308. I personally like the .300 Win mag more just because I do. No other reason.

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Guard Freedom from those that "want to do it for the Children."
 
As to barrel wear I have heard that the wear rate it dependant on ammount of powder used, each barrel will have (x lbs) of life, the more powder your case holds the faster it (barrel) will wear out, take for example a 300 warbird v. a 30-30 that 30-30 will shoot a lot longer (more rounds before erosion occurs) a 308 somewhere in the middle. Extreme example is 338\50BMG it will last about 450 rounds! Too much powder not enough bore size.Overbored.

The 300 is also belted which isn't needed any more (a little harder to size) , thats why the 300 Rem Mag doesnt have one. Also the neck is a little short on the 300 win, the only minor complaints I can think of. I have a 300 BAR, pretty nice but I don't really need it.Got it cheap at auction, may get rid of it.
As to military use the 308 is good to about 700 yards and the 300 to 1000. At 1000 yards the 300 has more energy than a 44 mag has point blank, pretty impressive.
 
With respect to barrel erosion, higher pressures = higher temperatures of combustion. Just like a car, thinking of the poor ol' valves during wide-open throttle operation...

Which is why I load down for plinkers; full-house for deer-hunting. I'm only going to shoot six or eight hunting loads during sight-in and deer-killing, but I can shoot a heckuva lot of reduced loads with much, much less erosion of the throat.

Same for pistol...I'll shoot 1,000 round of IPSC barely-major, for every box of full-house carry-loads.

Prairie-doggin' is a whole 'nother deal. Part of the deal is regularly buying new barrels...

:), Art
 
Has any one mentioned the sabot ?

You can shoot a 50-70 grain .223 bullet in any .30 caliber...and in a .300 it would be SMOKIN !

Speeds of around 4000+ fps are not uncommon.If you shoot them at crows...the feathers will take quite awhile to settle down to earth.



[This message has been edited by Watchman (edited August 16, 2000).]
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Watchman:
Has any one mentioned the sabot ?

You can shoot a 50-70 grain .223 bullet in any .30 caliber...and in a .300 it would be SMOKIN !

Speeds of around 4000+ fps are not uncommon.If you shoot them at crows...the feathers will take quite awhile to settle down to earth.
[/quote]

Everything you said about the soboted .30's is true. The problem is, you don't get an accurate round. Even the most accurate rifle will send the saboted rounds astray. I've read that 2MOA is unheard of. Correct me if I am wrong anybody that has first-hand evidence.
 
I've also shot the JDComponents 30/223 sabots. I used some 55gr. FMJ-BT in a .308 and couldn't get any semblance of accuracy. 4 MOA was about what I got. I'm sure someone could do better, but probably not by enough to make a difference. If anyone tries it,use a faster burning powder than you normally would. I got some enormous muzzle flash when I shot the things.
 
Very sorry about that McMann Industries web address. Here's the corrected one: www.mccann.shop-utopia.com/
I took this right off their web site. Right there on their home page is the .338 Win mag Garand.

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Guard Freedom from those that "want to do it for the Children."
 
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