30 Mauser in TT

T

tangolima

New member
I hand load for my Mauser broomhandle in 30 Mauser. I am getting a tokarev in 7.62x25. I understand these 2 cartridges have almost identical dimensions. 7.62x25 has much higher pressure, and shouldn't be fired in a broomhandle. How about the other way round? Any issue firing 30 Mauser in a tokarev? It seems a safe thing to do, given I have both pistols.
Your comments are much appreciated.

-TL
 
Last edited:
If you run the pressures up using 30 Mauser brass and x25 load data you run the risk of tearing case necks off.

If you maintain 30 Mauser pressures you may shorten case life but would otherwise generally be alright.

Starline has a warning / caveat listed on their website under x25 brass aboput 30 Mauser cases and x25 pressures and the CZ-52. I would expect the same possibility with a TT.
 
Thanks.

The starline website says those 2 cartridges are similar but different in case length. I wonder they are headspaced at shoulder or at the mouth. If it is latter, there should be little or no difference in case life.

Since I don't want to risk putting a x25 load in my broomhandle, I will only have 30 Mauser loads. One loading for both pistols.

-TL
 
I bought a 1925 broomhandle Mausers at a gunshow in 2003 for $180 just to verify it could shoot the 7.62x25mm loads that had blown up two CZ52s for me. Unfortunately, at just below that level in the work up, the primers started piercing. The firing pin fit to firing pin hole is not good.

But by 2005 I had it figured out. The CZ52 had the world's thinnest semi auto chamber walls made from the world's most variable strength semi auto steel, and I could explain why some blew up so easily and some did not.

I did Convert a Tokarev to rifle with a 30 Mauser reamer and a scoped Parker Hale 308 sniper trainer bull barrel. I shoot tokarev ammo in it. I would put my 100 yard Tokarev groups up against anybody else's Tokarev 100 yard groups:)

So much for mixing 7.62x25mm Tokarev with the 30 Mauser. Yes I can mix them, but the Tokarev stuff does not always work with the Tokarev stuff.

I have found that the 7.62x25mm sizer dies are often not small enough to make brass fit in Tokarevs or CZ52s.

But the last thing we need is SAAMI getting involved and screwing things up like they did with 303 Brit tolerances or 8x57mm pressure.

We can find all kinds of drawings for the 7.62x25mm and 30 Mauser and those drawing vary, and are not the same, but always seem to kinda overlap.
 
Clark said:
I bought a 1925 broomhandle Mausers at a gunshow in 2003 for $180 just to verify it could shoot the 7.62x25mm loads that had blown up two CZ52s for me. Unfortunately, at just below that level in the work up, the primers started piercing. The firing pin fit to firing pin hole is not good.

But by 2005 I had it figured out. The CZ52 had the world's thinnest semi auto chamber walls made from the world's most variable strength semi auto steel, and I could explain why some blew up so easily and some did not.

I did Convert a Tokarev to rifle with a 30 Mauser reamer and a scoped Parker Hale 308 sniper trainer bull barrel. I shoot tokarev ammo in it. I would put my 100 yard Tokarev groups up against anybody else's Tokarev 100 yard groups:)

So much for mixing 7.62x25mm Tokarev with the 30 Mauser. Yes I can mix them, but the Tokarev stuff does not always work with the Tokarev stuff.

I have found that the 7.62x25mm sizer dies are often not small enough to make brass fit in Tokarevs or CZ52s.

But the last thing we need is SAAMI getting involved and screwing things up like they did with 303 Brit tolerances or 8x57mm pressure.

We can find all kinds of drawings for the 7.62x25mm and 30 Mauser and those drawing vary, and are not the same, but always seem to kinda overlap.
Click to expand...
Broomhandle tends to have over sized firing pin hole. Mine does. I was about to have it bushed. It turned out capable of handling more than moderate loads as it was, so I left it alone.

So I guess 30 Mauser and 7.62x25 are interchangeable most of the time, but it may not if I am out of luck. Well, then I will start with my 30 Mauser die, and see how far I can go.

BTW, I do think broomhandle is very strong. It can handle pretty hot load. However, the pistol is old and parts are hard to find. Also x25 could be crazy hot. I just don't want to risk it while I don't have to.

-TL
 
I'm quite sure a lot of surplus x25 has been shot in Broomhandles. I know I did in the early 90's. I guess if there was a known batch that was very hot it should be avoided. I've got the Redding 30 Mauser die and Starline brass to match. I don't load it hot and everything is fine in the Broom and a Yugo M57. But honestly I don't shoot it that much. I load around ten different calibers and the 30 Mauser is by far the most difficult. The neck is so short you really have to be spot on with your neck tension. I've had quite a few rounds that I thought were fine to just have the bullet fall into the case with the lightest pressure. Go slow, triple check your setup and watch the bullets.
 
I don't know this, but I can speculate that the "bad Bulgarian ammo" described on forums a decade ago was no higher pressure than the rest of the non Russian Eastern block 42 k c.u.p. Tokarev ammo. The out of control variable was the Rockwell hardness of the thin CZ52 barrels that seemed to capriciously blow up.

I do know this:
I have surplus Bulgarian Tokarev ammo, and it does not seem any hotter to me.

Ted Curtis ballistician at Accurate Arms in March of 2000 wrote a letter sent out to many, including me:

"7.62 X 25 Tokarev ..
Due to the large number of handguns imported into the U.S. chambered
for the 7-62 x 25 Tokarev Accurate Arms has developed the following load
data for those shooters who wish to reload the little powerhouse. In
determining the appropriate pressure limit for our load data we tested
various military ammo from China, Russia, Austria Bulgaria and the
Czech Republic. Commercial ammo produced by Sellier & Bellot was also
tested. Based on these tests we arrived at a maximum pressure for our
lad data of 42,000 C.U.P. Only the single lot of Russian ammo was
significantly below this pressure averaging 31,000 C.U.P. The consistent
pressures between all other type sand manufactures was a welcome
surprise . Indeed, the fact that CZech ammo, made for the CZ-52 pistol,
produced the same pressure as that of the other countries was perhaps
the biggest surprise of the whole project. This in spite of the "tribal
lore" regarding this particular handgun and the ammo loaded for it
claiming that shooting Czech ammo in any other firearm so chambered will
causes spontaneous disassembly. The pressure data produced by the ammo
tested certainly doesn't support this theory."

And then after making fun of others for "tribal lore" about Czech ammo, he proceed a couple months later to publish a load book for AA that had "CZ52 only loads" that were too hot for Tokarevs.

But if Ted had jowls in 1966, I fear he is no longer with us. His CZ52 only loads have been recanted by AA.
 

Attachments

  • Ted Curtis ballistician 1966.jpg
    Ted Curtis ballistician 1966.jpg
    112.2 KB · Views: 12
jag2 said:
I'm quite sure a lot of surplus x25 has been shot in Broomhandles. I know I did in the early 90's. I guess if there was a known batch that was very hot it should be avoided. I've got the Redding 30 Mauser die and Starline brass to match. I don't load it hot and everything is fine in the Broom and a Yugo M57.
Click to expand...

Good to know. Thanks.

jag2 said:
I load around ten different calibers and the 30 Mauser is by far the most difficult. The neck is so short you really have to be spot on with your neck tension. I've had quite a few rounds that I thought were fine to just have the bullet fall into the case with the lightest pressure. Go slow, triple check your setup and watch the bullets.
Click to expand...

Indeed. I found the problem is not only the short neck. Bullet ogive makes thing even more difficult. Most bullet has too much "curve" and too little bearing "flat" for the short neck to bite on. I have much better result using the coated 30 carbine bullets from Missouri bullet company. It has 0.309" diameter. The sizing operation creates much bigger "flat" for the neck. I seldom have bullet setback with this bullet.

-TL
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top