.30 carbine for white tail deer... why not?

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leafybug

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I understand that there are tons of people who believe this cartridge is insufficient for deer. Heck, many people thought it wasn't enough for combat. (People say the same about 5.56) Thats a different conversation.
But my question is why not???

Every cartridge has limitations. This cartridge has similar ballistics to the .357 and within the right distance has enough power. My ideal scenario is a deer within 100 yards with a clear shot.
Let me hear what you think, as I plan on going in November, and getting my m1 carbine this week or next!!!
 
If you use a good expanding bullet and are a decent shot, sure. Provided legal for hunting, I would have no issues with a .30 Carbine on most whitetails. Mulies, probably not a good choice.
 
I'd do it. But, I also hunt elk with a .22 Hornet.

Within a reasonable range (the 100 yards you mention), I wouldn't have an issue using it for antelope or deer sized critters.
 
Be sure it is legal in your state. There are (or at least used to be) lots of states that do not allow them for deer.
 
I'll be hunting in Wisconsin where the regulations state that the bullet diameter must be at least .22 and be centerfire
 
Don't let energy numbers fool you, a 30 carbine has similar energy numbers, but it ain't a 357 magnum, or 223 for that matter. What matters is bullet penetration, placement and expansion. All things being equal energy numbers can help predict penetration and the amount of expansion you get. But 30 Carbine, 223, and 357 magnum are far from equal. I think all 3 can be used successfully if used within their limitations, but the 30 carbine is much more limited.

The 357 magnum can be loaded with 180-200 gr bullets and still get good penetration at longish ranges even at slow speeds. You'll not get a lot of expansion, but it starts out larger too. The 223, if proper bullets are used will get plenty of penetration and the speed gives you good expansion.

The 30 carbine is shooting very light, short stubby bullets which give poor penetration and they are designed to expand rapidly at slow speed further limiting penetration. Short, stubby bullets have very poor aerodynamics and lose speed fast. While the numbers may look similar to 357 mag at the muzzle, at 100 yards there is a big difference.

Remember, it is bullet length in relation to diameter that determines penetration. Not bullet weight so much.

I'd hunt whitetails with any of the above, but would consider the 30 carbine a 25-50 yard gun. The 357 mag, from a rifle is a 100-150 yard gun, a 223 is a 150-200 yard gun.
 
I took a white tail doe with mine a few years ago. The bullet got caught in the exit side of the hide. Shot was from about 50-60yd. It was fun and did the job, but I haven't brought it into the field since because of that. I like to know for sure that it's not going to stop in the target.
 
Mardanlin,
The last deer I took was with a .308 from about 30-50 yards. I was shooting federal power shock 150 gr sp. I shot looking straight into the deer. The bullet went in and got through past the lungs and heart, but did not exit. Even though it was a head on shot, I still would have figured on an exit would but there was none.
 
Legalities aside, Speer 110 grain HP's with IMR4227. Runs at about 1800 to 2000 fps. You must work up the load for whatever Carbine you're buying.
Accuracy out of my Plainfield(Max load these days. Wasn't when I worked it up) is scary, but an issue Carbine may not be accurate enough. Think 9" pie plate at 100. If it'll do that every time it's accurate enough for deer.
Wouldn't use any factory ammo myself. The Speer with a properly worked up load will blow a hole the size of a grapefruit in a ground hog.
 
The 30 Carbine has half the muzzle energy of a 30-30, one third the energy of a typical 30-06 Springfield, and is below the 1,200 foot pound energy requirement for deer hunting in the state of Maryland.
 
Some years ago in Florida I was fishing on a canal bank, the other side of which was private property. Before cel phones.
A poacher on a dirt bike carrying a M-1 carbine zoomed across the canal bridge.
Less that 10 minutes later he zoomed back with a doe draped across the bike.
Only heard one shot.
Unfortunate and blatant case of poaching.
 
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Don't let energy numbers fool you, a 30 carbine has similar energy numbers, but it ain't a 357 magnum, or 223 for that matter. What matters is bullet penetration, placement and expansion. All things being equal energy numbers can help predict penetration and the amount of expansion you get. But 30 Carbine, 223, and 357 magnum are far from equal.
Click to expand...

223 63 gr Sectional Density .179
30 Carbine 110 gr Sectional Density .166
357 158 gr. Sectional Density .177

Sectional Density is one key indicator of potential for penetration. These three are in the same ball park.

30 Carbine and 357 a lot closer than most people think.
 
223 63 gr Sectional Density .179
30 Carbine 110 gr Sectional Density .166
357 158 gr. Sectional Density .177

Sectional Density is one key indicator of potential for penetration. These three are in the same ball park.

30 Carbine and 357 a lot closer than most people think.
Click to expand...
Yes, there are a number of ways to predict penetration, with sectional density being one of them.

Another is momentum. In fact, Hornady's H.I.T.S. calculator is sectional density*momentum and is a sort of predictor of penetration. With that in mind, the 30 carbine falls well behind the .357 again.

What formulas can't account for, though, is bullet design, which can throw any assumptions about penetration and expansion out the window.
 
Shot many hogs with 30 cal carbine,, most ran very little.. The only one ran more than 50 yards were two (2) trough & throgh to the hart, Go figure ; )
Y/D
 
Saw a deer shot in the shoulder with a 30 Carbine. It failed to penetrate to the chest cavity, so we had to go find it and finish it. On the other hand, if you shoot for the ribs, it will likely work just fine out to 100-ish yds.
 
Why not, because there are to many choices out there that are better suited for this task. I respect the game I'm hunting to much to go out there with a round that "may" do the job. It's my opinion that doing stuff like this just gives us hunters a bad name. This is my opinion but it is shared by many.
 
smee,
a misplaced .308 or 30-06 will also fail to bring down a deer. I know there are a lot of hunters who are not very accurate. I just don't believe that using any particular caliber (albeit legal) makes someone irresponsible. I think responsibility lies in the hunters knowledge for the round they are using, and making a choice to pull the trigger or not based on the situation.
 
I shoot the Carbine in competition (CMP Carbine matches). I wouldn't hesitate at all to use it for deer hunting. Was going to use it this year but I had a new Pre-64 Winchester '06 with an El Paso 4X Weaver that I just had to shoot.

My father carried on in the SP during WWII and Korea. He swore buy it, even killed a water buffalo with one.

Maybe some states don't allow it for hunting. I don't live in those states. Wyoming requires its pistol bullets to develop 500 ft lbs of energy at 100 yards to be legal for hunting. The 30 Cal carbine loaded to mil specs except using RNSP, will get over 600 ft lbs.

There is no such thing as a guaranteed DRT bullet. Even with good bullet placement I've seen 300 WMs blow the lungs out of a antelope and watched run for 100 yards before it collapsed.

The Carbine is plenty of accurate enough and if you learn to shoot it, it would be more then adequate at reasonable ranges.

If you have doubts then don't use it. Its like a zero, if you have no confidence in your zero you'll muff the shot. The Carbine is the same. If you have no confidence in the gun and you're ability to shoot it, you'll muff the shot and blame the gun. If you have confidence in the gun and your ability to use it, it will work for you. All shooting is 98% mental.
 
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