.30/30 lever vs .308 or 30-06

J

Jorah

Moderator
Hey, folks. Question man here again.

I've read over many of the posts on the Rifle forum today (I usually just hang out on the Handguns forum) and think I could get some good info from ya'll.

I have an old Marlin .30/30 lever action. I bought the gun basically from the desire to have a heavier carbine than my trusty 10/22. I've shot the gun enough to be pretty comfortable with it, but the steady diet of expensive ammo finally did lead me to put it away for now.

Now, my question is this; given some unlikely TEOTWAWKI situation, and given that I've already spent my gun money this year on my Kimber (happy, happy, happy) so I only have about $150-250 between now and the end of the year, would you suggest any or otherwise of the following:

1) Take the money, buy a bunch of ammo, and practice with half of it. Saving the other half for social situations)

2) Upgrade the beat-up Marlin with a new barrel from Gun Parts, Inc.

3) Try to get a used gun in .308 or .30-06 and try to learn to use it?

One part of this is that I'm so new to guns that I'm not sure if the .308 etc. would be _that_ much better than the .30/30 in suburban-woods fighting. I don't hunt, so you can assume all my gun purchases are for RKBA/self defense type uses, and general messing about at the range.

-Jorah


[This message has been edited by Jorah (edited August 24, 1999).]
 
Have you considered reloading? That would cut your ammunition expenses way down. The most expensive component is the brass and if you've been saving your brass, you should have plenty to get you started.
There are several styles of presses (single stage, semi-progressive & progressive [see information in reloading forum on different presses]). Single stage presses with everything needed to get started begin well under $100 and go up from there.
If you go this route, hook up with someone who is an experienced roloader to help you get started.
Good luck no matter which way you decide.
 
I'm slowly warming to the idea of handloading. I am going to need to, in order to feed my .38 and .45 shooting addiction. I sat one night with the owner of the range where I shoot, and we reloaded 100 rounds of my .30/30 ammo... that gun suddenly was able to shoot 2MOA off a rest, about twice as good as my previous best, and obviously far more accurate than I can do offhand shooting. Thanks for the feedback...

-Jorah
 
AAAHHH!! The good 'ol 30-30. The Apache assault rifle. For general plinking, hunting and self defense purposes the 30-30 is hard to beat. It packs plenty of punch out to moderate ranges (200-300yds) and is plenty accurate enough for most any field situation you may encounter. I prefer the Winchester over the Marlin because the Marlin's micro-groove rifling doesn't like lead bullets but if you are going to stick with jacketed bullets the Marlin will work fine. Your Marlin will be more "combat capable" than any 308/30-06 hunting rifle (bolt action) you may buy.
I recently went through a "Patrol Rifle" course using an AR15. During the final qualification the instructor drug out his 30-30 and ran through the qualification course with us. He shot the course better with that old Winchester than most of us did with our high-tech ARs. In the hands of a capable man the lever action 30-30 is a formidable weapon.

Stick with the Marlin. Spend your money on some basic reloading equipment and shoot, shoot, shoot! Get proficient!

Is you barrel shot out? As I mentioned before, Marlin uses what they call micro-groove rifling. It is much shallower than conventional rifling and there are a lot more grooves. It looks much different than what you are probably used to seeing. If it ain't broke don't fix it.
 
Jorah,

You can feed the Marlin by reloading, as per fal308's suggestion. Consider the low-budget outlay at first. Lee makes an excellent reloading set for the 30-30 for cheap as new, and even cheaper as used at gun shows (make sure all parts are there). Cast bullets (flat nosed) are readily available in bulk from reputable sources at very reasonable prices. For the amount of money you quoted, you can concievably have sufficient fodder for the Marlin for many years to come. The low-budget outlay is offset by being manpower intensive, but if you want quick, consider presses, anything from the basic single stage to the state of the art Dillon progressives. Presses go up in price as the complexity increases and the time spent reloading decreases.



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Mykl
~~~~~
"If you really want to know what's going on;
then, you have to follow the money trail."
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
 
Jorah; I'm not a hunter either and thats my long gun of choice. Win M94 in 30-30 cal. Relatively powerful for any need; Great camp gun, rv gun, house gun, Y2K gun, you name it. All for $200.00! Wait till just before deer season and get the ammo on sale. Good luck.
 
Jeager. You say your Marlin is an older one. The barrel then, may not be a micro-groove. I would have to do some research, but I think marlin came out with micro-grovve barrels sometime in the 50's. My great-uncle had a 336 with conventional rifling and I have seen others. Mine is a micro-groove barrel, but with a little experimentation, you can get them to shoot cast lead. I'll give you a head start. heat treat the bullets and size the .310 in diameter. But not in that order. After the bullets are cast, size them to .310, but do not lube them. Then heat treat them in your oven at 450 degrees for at least one hour. Immediately drop them into cold water. Remove from the water and let sit for a couple of days. Then, usising a .311 diameter sizing die, lube the bullets with a hard lube like LBT blue or Lymans Orange magic. I load my ammo to duplicate the original 30-30 load (165 gr. bullet@ 1960 fps) because one of my rifles is an antique. I use either Lyman's 311291 or 31141 molds.(now 311041) Bullet weight runs about 175 gr. in my alloy. The Marlin will do 2.5 inches at 100 yards when I do my part. The 94's, 64 and 54 will do from 2.0 to 2.75 depending on the rifle.
I shoot a lot of heavy stuff, but to tell the truth, the 30-30 is my fun gun round.
For those that are interested, they work well on deer at reasonable ranges. (out to 150 yds althugh I prefer being much closer).
If you decide to go to a heavier rifle, go the .308. That is another of my favorite rounds.
Before I forget, I use that bullet sizing for all my 30 calibers.
I hope this helped.
Paul B.
 
Great advice, guys, thanks. What I'm taking away from this thread is:

1) Stick with the .30
2) Get simple reloading equipment or
2A) complex reloading equipment if I can afford to.
3) Shoot a lot, learn the .30/30 like the back of my hand, and the gun will do what I need, pretty much, out to 200 yards (my aging eyes would have trouble showing me what I was shooting at past there, anyway!

-Jorah


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According to the book "Marlin Firearms; A History of the Guns and the Company That Made Them" by Lt. Col. William S. Brophy USAR ret., Marlin started using the Mirco-Groove in their 22s in 1953. Early in 1956 Marlin announced that "all of its high-power firles,in all calibers were being equipped with Micro-Groove rifling, for extreme accuracy-performance."
 
Jorah,

Do you anticipate having to use your rifle to engage opponents past 200-250 yards? The ballistics on a 30-30 has a sharp rainbow trajectory after that point. Within those ranges your perfectly fine. The 30-30 has enough velocity to penetrate many types of cover.

I got a Winchester 94 just a couple months ago specifically as a trunk rifle. Much cheaper than an AR15, won't cry if I lose it. Also, the lever action is so popular, finding parts should it need repairs will not be a problem. 30-30 ammo. Abundant.

If you think that you may have to engage out to about 350+ yards I would go for either a .308 or 30-06. You can probably find a used rifle in either caliber for under $200. It will most likely be a bolt action so it won't be as fast as a lever action. It will probably be heavier also, so carrying it for extended periods may not be as pleasant.
 
With 250 bucks you can get yourself an Enfield in .308, or one of the .308s built on a MAuser 98 action (I think the Spanish and Israelis made em) for around 120-170 Federal Reserve Notes, A used RCBS Rock Chucker press 75 FRNs and some surplus .308 Brass, Bullets (pulled m2 150 grain flat nose or m80 147 grain BTHPs).

Sell the .30-30
Spend a couple more bucks get some IMR4895 powder, .308 dies, and you are on your way to a more versaltile caliber shooting rifle. (Dont forget primers) and you could find a used reloading manual or just get on line to get some load data (There is tons of .308 dope out there)

Me being a bolt action fan and not really liking lever guns, I'd say GO .308!!
 
Jorah,
My 30-30, a Ted Williams brand Winchester 94, served me for years as a "just in case" wallhanger. It has at most, 100 rounds through it, despite being 25 years old. The finish is pretty bad from all those years hanging on the wall, but the action is still crisp and the bore is still bright. Excellent trigger, light and breaks like glass,,,,,worlds better than anything I have seen new on the shelf. I bought a Lee hand loader for it, reloaded everthing after the first 20 rounds. It took a lot of time to hammer the cases in vs using a press, but for the limited shooting I did with it, it was $20.00 well spent. I would say hang on to the Marlin, it shoots well, you like it, and whats most important, you have a known item. Later down the road, when money allows, you can get something else.

*FWIW, the old 94 hasn't been fired for a number of years, something I intend to change today :)
 
Saw a Gunsite 30/30 at my dealer yesterday.

Barrel was cut down to 16", Ghost ring setup (unusual not mounted to the side of the receiver but on the top part of the action that cycles--excuse my improper vocab), smooth smooth smooth action and great trigger. Set up with a sling and butt cuff--and parkerized. About as politically correct a defense arm as one could buy. But at $875 hmmmm--to many other options jump out as well.
 
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