30-30 Gallery loads - min velocity

B

Billglass

New member
I’m looking to make up some 30-30 Gallery loads to shoot out of my Marlin 30-30 w/ Microgroove 20” barrel at 25 yards

I have shot the following loads based on data from this website:
http://www.gmdr.com/lever/lowveldata.htm

Powder /Charge weight / Avg velocity / SD / ES / Group size
all loads using CCI 200 LRP

Bullseye / 5.6gr / 1128fps / 3fps / 8fps / 1.3 inches
2400 / 8.0gr / 1069 fps /15fps / 42fps/ 0.9 inches
Unique / 9.0gr/ 1397fps / 3 fps / 10fps / 1.6 inches
W231/ 7gr / 1217fps / 9fps / 24fps / 1.6 inches
IMR 4227 / 10gr / 1058fps / 15fps / 34fps / 0.6 inches

I would like to further reduce several of these loads a little more – so they are definitely sub-sonic
I plan to use LaserCast 170 grain RNFPbb because they have a history with gmdr and I have collected some data on my own with these bullets.
But I'm open for suggestions to other bullets too.

I will be testing them over a chronograph
And would like to know what would be the slowest velocity I could get without sticking a bullet in the barrel?

I will be working down in 0.2 grain increments from loads listed above and want to stop well before the “stuck bullet” scenario
 
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Your 2400 and 4227 loads are already subsonic. Test each step down a bunch, namely in my head due to case capacity vs the amount of powder in each. If you start to see odd speeds thats the sight that ypu are in the basement and need to go back up a floor.These rounds with small charges can sometimes lead to poor ignition/stuck bullets in my experience.

Are you looking for lowest noise? Lowest recoil? All of the above?
 
the chromo was out at least 10 feet from barrel
so they could be transonic
I'd like to at least get down around 900 fps
but I was getting 3 to 4 inch drops for each of the loads I've fired

looking mostly for quiet loads
 
My fun/plinking loads for the 30-30 ,and 170 grain cast FP (Lee) uses 7.5 grains of Unique. This is in a Winchester 94 . I have no idea of the velocity...no chrono.

If you can get some Red Dot powder, a very accurate short range load is 6.0 grains Red Dot with a 170 grain cast FP (Lee), this load , according to the book should be close to 1000 fps.

What velocity the bullet sticks is hard to predict...way to many variables.
I have a 357 magnum rifle, 38 special target wadcutter loads @ 750-800 fps exit the barrel....I have a feeling that's about as low in velocity you want to go and still get decent bullet stabilization. Just be careful and bring a rod to the range when doing low velocity testing....I do now , after sticking a bullet !

Gary
 
Powder /Charge weight / Avg velocity / SD / ES / Group size

Bullseye / 5.6gr / 1128fps / 3fps / 8fps / 1.3 inches
2400 / 8.0gr / 1069 fps /15fps / 42fps/ 0.9 inches
Unique / 9.0gr/ 1397fps / 3 fps / 10fps / 1.6 inches
W231/ 7gr / 1217fps / 9fps / 24fps / 1.6 inches
IMR 4227 / 10gr / 1058fps / 15fps / 34fps / 0.6 inches
Click to expand...

Incomplete load data...the choice of primer can influence the loads drastically.
 
If you want my OPINION, using anything slower than unique isn't a great idea. 2400 isn't going to give you the low noise and velocity that you want, the charge will still be burning as it leaves the barrel. It will be like a heavy .357, I expect. A heavy bullet is the only way to do bit. Essentially, if you use a bulkier charge of a moderately slow pistol powder, you will wind up with a load that functions a lot like a pistol round.

Yes, it is simply my opinion, but five grains. Of bullseye scattered around that case erratically igniting as the charge builds isn't something I would want, and if a wide spread of velocities occur, it should be dumped. These things function in small spaces. It's going to be hard to reach subsonic, but even so, without a suppressor, you must add up the normal muzzle blast and supersonic sound and just consider the overall noise level.

I don't know how this would work, but the heavier your bullet is, the more effectively you can pursue low velocities. If a 220 lead bullet can stabilize, you could possibly work up some effective loads by looking at the blk.
 
When using gallery loads with small charges , I load the chamber then tilt the barrel up , which places the powder charge to the rear before firing.
Red Dot is a good powder to use because it's not terribly position sensitive.
Gary
 
FOR ENTERTAINMENT AND EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY
I am NOT recommending this for anyone, as they are not "published" loads...

My most quiet load for .30-30 is with a .310" round ball, and one grain of Red Dot...

I have no idea of velocity...I do know that shooting from my 26" barreled Marlin 1893 with a peep sight, I can keep these on a 9" skillet all day at 60 yards...I do know that I have never stuck a round ball with this charge...

I usually load 2.1gr Red Dot (smallest Lee Dipper - .3cc)...Slightly louder, but noticeably less time between report and ding on the skillet...

As stated, not a published load...

I got the idea from an actual published load using Bullseye...That load can be found on page 63 of this very old manual:

http://stevespages.com/NewManuals/Misc-historic/IdealHandbook38 1951.pdf

Manual also has cellar loads for .35 Remington, and collar-button loads for .45-70...

With the .310" round ball, I do not resize the case...I decap, prime, charge with dipper, and tap in the ball sprue up...I then slather on a dollop of Lee Liquid Alox to seal and lube...
 
Way back when, people experimented with some really strange stuff and weren't too shy about it. This sort of stuff was extensively written up in a reloaders digest from the fifties. Another detailed weird stuff with shotgun shells. REALLY weird stuff. One guy said that a cast bullet over a compressed load of 4831was an excellent load.


Great ideas made it into print, and a few obscenely stupid ones. The same thing still happens, but you usually find the obscenely stupid stuff online.
 
A starting load of Trail Boss is probably not far from what you want. I've used it in my very old Win 1894 w/ 26" barrel. Trail Boss is designed for this sort of stuff, though it's not especially economical.
 
I see that Trail Boss has just been entered so will add a little to it. This is really the powder for mild loads. Here is how to start using it (if not already familiar with it). First determine and mark on a case where the base of the bullet will be after it has been seated. Then add TB up to the mark on the case, weigh it, and this will be considered the max recommend load but will be mild at best. Then the starting load as mentioned above will be 70% of max. So if max was 20 gr (although will probably not be nearly that much with the .30-30), starting 70% would be 14 gr, and very milder yet. Note that bullet weight does not matter and the case will be nearly full, or completely full if you settle on max. Regardless of amount of powder used, Trail Boss does not know the meaning of excessive pressure (except as I understand if a max load of it were used in a .50 BMG load). But if you want mild, TB is mild even when max loads are used with the likes of .416s and .458s.

The normal 1 lb powder container only holds 9 oz of TB due to its fluffiness, having the appearance of small doughnuts.
 
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I've loaded X-Treem 110g .30 carbine bullets in .30-30 with 7 grains of red dot for plinking loads. These are fun and cheap loads...

Tony
 
Trail boss, from what I have read, is going to take his rounds down to his desired subsonic velocities as safely as any powder possibly could but it won't do it as cheaply.

What would I do? I'm going to use the data published by the company that makes the darned stuff, and toss every other possible piece of paper aside, unless it also has the endorsement of the powder maker.
 
Actually Trail Boss is just as economical as standard powders or even more so. Here's the reason why. The price tag on a 9 oz can of TB that I checked shows $18.60 and a 1 lb can of 4895 shows $28. Now if you were to load .30-06 cases with say 48 gr of 4895, a max load of TB in the '06 would only be 18 gr, if that much. So the 9 oz can of TB will go farther than the 1 lb can of 4895, and more economical even if you jack up the TB price to the same as 4895.

TB seems to be readily available now compared to several months ago.
 
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True. There are other ways to define cheap. Not every application will produce nearly identical loads at equal cost, but I guess that the point we both should agree on is that whatever works best (relatively speaking) should be the product that you use. Saving even a nickel per round, to me, is not a good enough reason to alter a load if that load gives excellent performance.

I once bought a new pistol powder to replace one that had worked well in the past, choosing the new one because I could save one cent per round. The new powder sucked. I eventually just dumped it.
 
briandg
Roger on your reply. Here's something a little off base regarding pricing that might be unusual. Note that I indicated the 4895 price at $28 even. The LGS prices almost everything, especially on components, so that item price plus tax always comes out to an even dollar. So if the price tag says $35 (like on primers) that is the price you pay. You can have your check made out even before they ring up the sale.
 
Never gave much thought to using the heavier bullets in gallery loads in the 30-30, .308 Win, or 30-06. Generally use something in the 100 to 120 grain range and 5.0 gr. of Unique. Probably not subsonic either but I never bothered to chronograph the loads.

Bullets were sized to .310". After charging the case I would put quarter square of toilet paper light tamped against the powder charge and seat the bullet. Accuracy was good in several 30-30 rifle my .308s and 30-06.

On the 30-30s, bullet length was important if one wanted to feed from the magazine. My Marlin was reasonably forgiving but the Winchester M64 and M94 were fussy. Only the slightly longer 120 gr. bullet could be seated out enough to feed from the magazine. The 100 and 110 gr. bullets could only be single loaded.

That same 5.0 gr Unique charge also worked quite well in the .308 and 30-06. Never saw any reason to change. They also make nice small game loads too.
Paul B.
 
Taking the heaviest possible bullet into a very small charge is the only way to increase the effectiveness of the burn. If you want light loads, pressure will be so low that your powder may just burp and throw out uninvited particles. Leaving excess air space, such as by using a few grains of 2400 in a 30-06 leaves so much air space that the initial pressure spike is just absorbed creating a high pressure bubble. The heavier the bullet, the greater the back pressure, the more effectively that charge combusts because the initial pressure is highly increased.

Ever wondered why the .300 whisper was designed around a 220 grain bullet? A subsonic round, for example, a match rimfire, is worthless for combat. You're limited to only 1,000 fps to remain subsonic, so how do you make a round strong enough to use in combat? You fire a subsonic bullet that weighs five times as much as that rimfire.

Subsonic 9mms 115 or subsonic 240 grain .44?
 
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