I am getting ready to reload for my new rifle in 30-06. I have been trying to understand the differences between 30-06 and 7.62x63 brass. my understanding is that it is similar to my reloading 5.56 and 223, that the eternal case dimensions are the same, but the military brass is thicker and has a reduced case capacity. just trying to make sure i understand this. thanks
30-06 vs 7.62x63
- Thread starter Shadow9mm
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kilotanker22
New member
If you have a piece of each. See how much case capacity each has to see the difference.
I have 5.56 brass and some Norma 223 rem brass that have nearly identical case capacity. The biggest difference between 223 and 5.56 Nato. As far as I understand it is that 5.56 is rat d to 60,000 psi whereas the 223 is 55,000 psi. Also the chamber is cut with a longer and more generous throat section in 5.56 Nato.
If these are for an older military rifle I would be cautious with load data, as I have heard that some of the older actions were not heat treated very well and are weaker than commercial actions.
I have 5.56 brass and some Norma 223 rem brass that have nearly identical case capacity. The biggest difference between 223 and 5.56 Nato. As far as I understand it is that 5.56 is rat d to 60,000 psi whereas the 223 is 55,000 psi. Also the chamber is cut with a longer and more generous throat section in 5.56 Nato.
If these are for an older military rifle I would be cautious with load data, as I have heard that some of the older actions were not heat treated very well and are weaker than commercial actions.
ligonierbill
New member
I have to admit I have never seen a case headstamped 7.62x63.
for a new modern production rifle
Just got the rifle today (TC Compass), planning to mainly handload for it. A friend of mine gave me close to 100pcs of military brass that had been fired out of a garand. trying to use what I have.
kilotanker22
New member
That brass should work fine. Remember to FL size it and check the case length.
If you happen to ha e some on hand, H-4350 works very well with 165 grain bullets. At least for me.
If you happen to ha e some on hand, H-4350 works very well with 165 grain bullets. At least for me.
OK, you've got some Euro? .30-06 military fired brass.
First step, make sure they are NOT Berdan primed! If they are Berdan primed, toss them, don't bother trying to reload them. Get a good light and check. One central hole in the primer pocket, we move on. 2-3 small holes, off center, toss the brass and get other stuff.
If it's military it probably has a crimped in primer. This will have to be dealt with, before a new primer can be inserted.
7.62x63mm is the European designation for the .30-06. The .30-06 was never a popular sporting round in Europe. There is commercial 7.62x63 ammo but it is scarce and its unlikely to be found in the US. And, it might be Berdan primed, as well.
Several European countries used the .30-06 in military arms in the years after WWII and before the adoption of the 7.62 NATO. Some were US supplied guns, some were guns they made themselves for the round. 7.62x63mm military ammo will be Berdan primed. And therefore, not practical to reload.
DO NOT run a 7.62x63 case into your .30-06 sizer die, until after you know if it is Boxer primed (the US system) or Berdan primed (the European system) Berdan primed brass WILL BREAK your decapping pin, and worst case, might bend the entire decapping stem.
Check that brass you have, and get back to us. If it's Berdan primed (and I highly suspect it is) differences in case thickness etc are moot.
Do understand it is not impossible to reload Berdan primed brass, it is just impractical, because the new Berdan primers you will need are very rare in the US, and standard US loading dies and tools won't work to decap fired brass.
If the stuff you have is boxer primed it would be pretty rare, but if it is, you can use it and we can discuss the tips and tricks to loading it for you new rifle. If its what I think it is, (berdan) it should go in the scrap/recycle brass bin.
Good luck, and please, do let us know what it is.
First step, make sure they are NOT Berdan primed! If they are Berdan primed, toss them, don't bother trying to reload them. Get a good light and check. One central hole in the primer pocket, we move on. 2-3 small holes, off center, toss the brass and get other stuff.
If it's military it probably has a crimped in primer. This will have to be dealt with, before a new primer can be inserted.
7.62x63mm is the European designation for the .30-06. The .30-06 was never a popular sporting round in Europe. There is commercial 7.62x63 ammo but it is scarce and its unlikely to be found in the US. And, it might be Berdan primed, as well.
Several European countries used the .30-06 in military arms in the years after WWII and before the adoption of the 7.62 NATO. Some were US supplied guns, some were guns they made themselves for the round. 7.62x63mm military ammo will be Berdan primed. And therefore, not practical to reload.
DO NOT run a 7.62x63 case into your .30-06 sizer die, until after you know if it is Boxer primed (the US system) or Berdan primed (the European system) Berdan primed brass WILL BREAK your decapping pin, and worst case, might bend the entire decapping stem.
Check that brass you have, and get back to us. If it's Berdan primed (and I highly suspect it is) differences in case thickness etc are moot.
Do understand it is not impossible to reload Berdan primed brass, it is just impractical, because the new Berdan primers you will need are very rare in the US, and standard US loading dies and tools won't work to decap fired brass.
If the stuff you have is boxer primed it would be pretty rare, but if it is, you can use it and we can discuss the tips and tricks to loading it for you new rifle. If its what I think it is, (berdan) it should go in the scrap/recycle brass bin.
Good luck, and please, do let us know what it is.
yay, no beridan primed! took a a few minutes, but I checked them.Have the following head stamps so far. I have a RCBS primer pocket swager kit, (will do both small and large) that I use of my all my .223 nad 5.56 brass after first firing so good there.
lc 59 (lake city)
60a 30 85 (no idea)
HCP 65, 69, and 77 (greek)
PPU 30-06 SPRG.
S L 53 (St. Louis Ordnance Plant )
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I think maybe Shadow9mm assumed military brass would all use that metric 7.62×63 designation analogous to our military use of 7.62 NATO for the 30 cal NATO round. But 30-06 was never adopted by NATO, so there was never a reason for us to use the metric-compatible designation for compatibility with our allies as is the case with the NATO cartridge. 30-06 is and always was a U.S. military name that was simply adopted unchanged by commercial makers. It is, as 44 Amp described, only in Europe that the metric designation has occasionally appeared for it, and even that is unusual. European commercial ammunition makers and the CIP only list it under the 30-06 name.
No Berdan! yay!
ok, so you've got some "GI" fired brass.
There is one tool I recommend you get. Its horribly expensive (not!
)
Its the Lee punch and base "military" decapper set. It will last your lifetime, and beyond, and IF you can break it, Lee will replace it free.
The larger punch is near .30 cal and can help "round out" bent case mouths. The decapping pin part is hell for stout, and you "feel" it go into the flash hole, including off center ones. Drive out the crimped in GI primer with a few taps of a hammer, and check for off center flash holes. If you find any, put them aside. Now you're ready to remove the primer pocket crimp and load normally.
GI brass has the reputation for being thicker, and its usually true, but how much thicker varies. Using the listed starting loads you should be ok.
You can take the step of weighing each case. There is no "set weight" different brass alloys can have different weights while having the same outside and inside dimensions. Thicker brass with smaller inside space will weigh more. 2-5gr difference, no big deal 10-15 or more, separate into their own group for load development. Not looking for match grade uniformity at this point just general "this is different enough from that it should have its own work up" kind of thing.
Good Luck, and if you have any questions, we're here...
ok, so you've got some "GI" fired brass.
There is one tool I recommend you get. Its horribly expensive (not!
)Its the Lee punch and base "military" decapper set. It will last your lifetime, and beyond, and IF you can break it, Lee will replace it free.
The larger punch is near .30 cal and can help "round out" bent case mouths. The decapping pin part is hell for stout, and you "feel" it go into the flash hole, including off center ones. Drive out the crimped in GI primer with a few taps of a hammer, and check for off center flash holes. If you find any, put them aside. Now you're ready to remove the primer pocket crimp and load normally.
GI brass has the reputation for being thicker, and its usually true, but how much thicker varies. Using the listed starting loads you should be ok.
You can take the step of weighing each case. There is no "set weight" different brass alloys can have different weights while having the same outside and inside dimensions. Thicker brass with smaller inside space will weigh more. 2-5gr difference, no big deal 10-15 or more, separate into their own group for load development. Not looking for match grade uniformity at this point just general "this is different enough from that it should have its own work up" kind of thing.
Good Luck, and if you have any questions, we're here...