30-06 Problem

R

Right to bear arms

New member
I spent some time at the range today with 2 30-06s. One a Winchester M70 and the other a Remington 78 (aka cheap 700). The Winchester consistently made 3 shot groups of 1/2-3/4" . The Remington made groups of 2-3". The loads were identical. 57 Gr of H4350 behind a 165 gr sierra BT. 3.25 c.o.l. cases trimmed to 2.85. CCI 200 primers. My question is this: The Remmie is mine. The W70 belongs to my pastor. How do I make a shooter out of this gun? What steps would you do to shrink these groups and make this a confident rifle? open to all ideas. Thanking all of you inadvance. R.T.B.A.
 
I'd look at replacing the stock with a Ram-Line or Butler Creek if they're still made. Have a smith put in a Timney trigger.
 
both good ideas. I'm trying to make this a reasonable shooter without a lot of money. The Remmie had a Leupold rifleman 2-7x scope while the Winnie had a 3x9 Browning tactical scope.(much clearer). There is a Remington replacement magnum stock with limbsaver on ebay for 49$. would have to freefloat standard barrel.
 
For starters every rifle has its own "favorite" load. Even guns from the same company with 1 number different serial numbers will shoot best with different ammo. So first try several different bullet powder combos. I assume from the message that you handload ammo. most rifles will shoot more accurately if you set the bullet just a few hundredths of an inch from the start of the rifling. color a bullet with a black magic marker and load it on an empty case. don't set it to your normal depth. Leave it out a little and load it in the rifle. if it comes back out with marks on the ogive of the bullet adjust the bullet set depth until it clears the rifling and then give it another turn deaper. Also check the barrel for free float. Run a dollar bill between the barrel and stock. If it won't slide easily all the way to the chamber remove the stock and carve or rasp out the material that shows rub marks from the barrel. If the dollar bill runs all the way to the chamber already try folding paper and wedging it under the barrel for up pressure. Then if that doesn't do it re-bed the stock. next a trigger job. can't shoot tight groups with a heavy creepy or rough trigger pull. I would start in that order because they get more expensive as you go down the list. If re-beddding the stock dosn't get noticable changes you may need a new barrel.
have fun and good luck
 
Well

I would start by examining my rifle. It's not new so I don't know what kind of condition it's in. Basic stuff like action screws tight, scope mounts tight, then is barrel clean or got a lot of copper in it. Then I would think about the action to stock bedding and the barrel channel. Some rifles like a little pressure under the barrel towards the end of the stock a business card folded between the stock and barrel will tell if that's the case. Some rifles do very well with the barrel free floated Glass bedding the action never seems to hurt and usually helps. How is the trigger if its rough and tough like John Wayne you might do some good there. With the rifle shooting, I think you said 2 to 3 inches your not that far off if the rifle is in good shape you might get where you need to be with just load development. My 06 loves Winchester 760 and nosler 165 grs
bb
 
It could be that your pastor just has an unusually accurate rifle. And, that your rifle is more normal than his. Perhaps you should look at rifles that are known for their accuracy. A look at a Savage with the accustock and accutrigger with a heavy barrel may be wise.
 
A lot of good info in your post! I am going to do the candle black/ magic marker technique and seat the bullet back .03 from the lands. The gun also had a hard buttplate while the W70 had a Pachmayr pad. Maybe I subconsciously anticipated the recoil. If H4350 is not going to be my sweet powder for this particular gun, what other powders do you reccomend. 4831 4064, etc.
 
Buzzard Bait . . good ideas. I'll double check the bedding screws and try the business card technique. I've always heard that most 30-06 are inherently accurate rifles. At my age and eyes I'll be happy with consistent 1-1/2" groups. In my younger days I lost a few elk because of innacurate rifles. I just feel better with a gun and load that I know can deliver the goods at 300 yds. or less. I don't wanat the gun to be a variable.
 
I would try changing bullets before powder. The contact with the lands and grooves is more likely to be the culprit. However the consistency of the burning of the powder is critical so be precise with the loading and take care to seat the bullets at the same depth and all of the primers need to be seated to a consistent depth as well. Optimum powder charge for accuracy is the one that fills the case completely to the bottom of the bullet. If your load doesn't then try a slower burning rate powder.
 
The Remington should do better, abd the above posts are right on. Yesterday I was shooting my sporterized 03 Springfield with poor accuracy, and noticed that the scope was moving. By that I mean that the rings, although tightened still allowed it to move forward because of recoil.

In the feild I was able to remove the rings and shim it with cardboard from a box of 22s. After reassembling, and sighting it in, it shot 4 shots that could be covered with a quarter at 100 yards. I was using 54 gr of N-160 Vat. powder, with a 180 Hornady SPBT bullets.

Suggestions:
Try different seating depths. Generally .010 works best. Heavier bullets seem to work better, but not always. Sometimes flat base works better. The Sierra 168 HPBT is hard to beat for accuracy.

Glass bedding the action is a good idea, along with floating the barrel. Don't shoot more than three rounds without letting the barrel cool.

IMR 4064, 4350 and 4895 have worked well for me, with IMR4895 the best.
Neck sizing with brass shot in that gun may improve accuracy.

Good consistant techniques when shooting. Good Luck, Eagle
 
This is exactly why I joined this forum. Most of this information is valuable. My immediate plans are to carefully seat bullets to .01-.03 of lands, fit the rifle with a recoil pad. Incidentally I bought this rifle at a pawn shop a few weeks ago for $250. It was in sorry shape and I felt sorry for it. I just want it to shoot less than 2" consistently. I thoroughly cleaned the rifle and checked bore and rifling. looked like a minimum of bullets went down barrel. I am puzzled because I could make the M70 shoot less than 3/4" all day long with the same kind of hold. My Ruger heavy barrel 22-250 also shoots itty bitty little groups at 100 yds.
 
Check the crown also. Run a q tip around it and make sure it doesn't snag anywhere.

Also try different loads and see if one works better than the other. Did you buy it with the Leupold scope for $250? If so, you got a good deal.

If it's not something simple, you might be ahead to just sell it and buy a Savage. They sell Savage Model 10 or 110's depending on the caliber at Walmart for $387 with a cheap scope. You could sell the cheap scope to get some of the cost back. They have the famous accu trigger that is great, as well as usually being very accurate rifles. I'm not a big Remington fan especially with their newer stuff, but I know nothing about that particular rifle so I'm not sure about it.
 
I bought this rifle at a pawn shop a few weeks ago for $250. It was in sorry shape and I felt sorry for it.
Click to expand...

I love buying used, not quite so pretty rifles and trying to rehabilitate them. Sometimes my only criteria when looking for a gun is a killer bargain. You may get a diamond in the rough, you may swing and miss. Always fun though!
 
First things first.

Clean the heck out of the bore and chamber. A lot of used rifles with "shot out barrels" are really just crudded up and in need of a good solid cleaning.

Check the muzzle crown for uneven wear or nicks.

Check the scope rings and base for tightness.

Check the stock for any swelling, soft spots, and barrel floating.

Let us know your results.

Jimro
 
Jimro's list is good. I have a Rem 700 06 that sprays 4" groups with 180 grn Nosler accubonds in any load I've tried. I can load various other stuff to sub MOA in the same rifle. That rifle has many rounds through it but is clean glass-bedded and free-floated with a great trigger adjustment. There is hope
 
I am sure there are exceptions,but I believe with a modern bolt action rifle,fed reasonably good ammunition,something is going on if they won't shoot 2 inches.
Is your group round or strung?
Wood changes a little,and can be compressed.When you tighten your guard screws,how do you go about it?
As you come up to torque on them,do the just go tight in 1/4 tun or so,or is there any "take up" that feels like you are drawing things together?
The wood must not contact the side of a guard screw.Are they clear?
You can sometimes make gains by changing powders,but often the poor performing powder just was not a good match.H 4350 is a good 30-06 powder.
I would be surprised if the rifle won't do less than 2 inches once you find its belly ache
 
2-3 MOA

Lets call it 2.5 MOA to make it easy.

+1 on all the checks and cleaning. And are we comparing apples to apples? Lots of variables that I've not seen clarified. Quality of optics, trigger pulls, age of rifles/# of rds fired, etc.

Finally, a 2.5 MOA '06 , $250 bucks , on a budget stock and action, is not necessarily a bad thing. Heck, I read somewhere that Carlos Hathcock's commanding officer claimed that Carlos's M70, in '06, was only about a 20-2.5 MOA rifle and look what Hathcock accomplished.
 
My son's 700 3006,(used to be mine) absoultely loves 150 gr BT's setting on a 58 grn charge of 4350.;) It is free-floated walnut, no trigger work, and an old Simmons TV lense 3x9x40 scope. Also there is a hard plastic butt-pad, which needs to be changed, but yes there are many loads, find the one that rifle loves most and load it and practice shooting it.;) +1 Big al hunter,(btw you don't really hunt als do you?):rolleyes: Only after I found the one it likes would I start candle-blackening the bullet to find the lands, I wouldn't concentrate my first efforts with all that. However once you find THE load you are heading the right direction, just don't put the egg in front of the cart.:o
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top