30-06 armor piercing ammo value?
- Thread starter Jamis
- Start date
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
From the FWIW trashcan: AP and tracers are believed by some folks to cause extra wear on a barrel. I've shot a round or two of each from time to time with no apparent harm, in that my later group sizes from the benchrest were unaffected.
This is not to say prolonged use might not cause more erosion or scoring of a barrel than regular hunting or GI Ball ammo.
I've seen loose rounds in a bowl at a gunshow at $1 per each. Possibly the seller would have taken less for some large-ish number, but I didn't bother to ask.
Again FWIW, a max-load hunting round of '06 will out-penetrate AP. (WW II armor plate at 100 yards)
, Art
This is not to say prolonged use might not cause more erosion or scoring of a barrel than regular hunting or GI Ball ammo.
I've seen loose rounds in a bowl at a gunshow at $1 per each. Possibly the seller would have taken less for some large-ish number, but I didn't bother to ask.
Again FWIW, a max-load hunting round of '06 will out-penetrate AP. (WW II armor plate at 100 yards)
, ArtI've seen it for $8 per box of 20 at gun shows out here in Sunny So-Cal, compared to about $5 per box for M2 ball. The black tip AP round uses a 160 grain bullet.
Art – I bet a black tip bullet over a max load of 4895 or 4046 would out-penetrate any hunting bullet of reasonably similar weight (though at long distances, I’d put my $ on a 240 grainer over the 160 gr AP).
Semper fi,
Bruegger out
Art – I bet a black tip bullet over a max load of 4895 or 4046 would out-penetrate any hunting bullet of reasonably similar weight (though at long distances, I’d put my $ on a 240 grainer over the 160 gr AP).
Semper fi,
Bruegger out
The ap round that you are discussing has an almost pure copper jacket softer than a ball jacket and certainlly no harder than a commercial hunting round. The armor defeating part of the bullet is a tungsten steel core. When the bullet encounters resistance, the soft jacket is shed leaving the super hard core to do the penetration.
I should not share this with because I was the beneficiary of hundreds and hundreds of rounds of this stuff in my youth from pilfering national guardsmen who did not want to "ruin their hunting rifles" shooting this stuff for practive. If you know anyone that has a quantity of ap and are apprehensive about ruining their rifle, tell them that you have an old beater that you are not afraid to abuse, and what ever you do, do not try to convince them that it will not hurt the bore of their hunting rifle.
If you pull a round and open up the bullet, score it with a file and use pliers to mangle the jacket off, you will be amazed at the core. It appears to be about 6mm in diameter and as sharp as a needle on the tip. To get an idea about how hard it is, try to score it with a file.
At point blank range the round will penetrate four feet of rail road ties out of my 1917 Enfield.
shoot often, shoot safely
Jay
I should not share this with because I was the beneficiary of hundreds and hundreds of rounds of this stuff in my youth from pilfering national guardsmen who did not want to "ruin their hunting rifles" shooting this stuff for practive. If you know anyone that has a quantity of ap and are apprehensive about ruining their rifle, tell them that you have an old beater that you are not afraid to abuse, and what ever you do, do not try to convince them that it will not hurt the bore of their hunting rifle.
If you pull a round and open up the bullet, score it with a file and use pliers to mangle the jacket off, you will be amazed at the core. It appears to be about 6mm in diameter and as sharp as a needle on the tip. To get an idea about how hard it is, try to score it with a file.
At point blank range the round will penetrate four feet of rail road ties out of my 1917 Enfield.
shoot often, shoot safely
Jay
Edward429451
Moderator
The bullets themselves are 163 grains and can be bought as a componant for $10. per 100 or $80. per 1000 at hi-techammo.com
jaysouth is correct, only copper touches your bore. It's the teflon coated steel ones that will wear your barrel fast.
Four feet of RR ties? you mean A RR tie at four feet, or four RR ties? I dont think you mean four feet of steel do you?
jaysouth is correct, only copper touches your bore. It's the teflon coated steel ones that will wear your barrel fast.
Four feet of RR ties? you mean A RR tie at four feet, or four RR ties? I dont think you mean four feet of steel do you?
ohen cepel
New member
I'm not an ammo collector. However, I have bought several boxes of WWII AP and tracer ammo. Still in the original box, some from Lake City and a place in Denver (please don't quote me on that part, haven't looked at it in years).
I think the WWII stuff in the orignal box may have some collector's value. Most of the stuff you see now is surplus that has been pulled and reloaded, better if you want to shoot it.
I think if what you have is WWII era date stamped in an good condition box then it would probably have some collector value but probably not more than a buck or two a round.
Buy the way, I tested some of the WWII tracer and it worked fine!
My 2 cents.
I think the WWII stuff in the orignal box may have some collector's value. Most of the stuff you see now is surplus that has been pulled and reloaded, better if you want to shoot it.
I think if what you have is WWII era date stamped in an good condition box then it would probably have some collector value but probably not more than a buck or two a round.
Buy the way, I tested some of the WWII tracer and it worked fine!
My 2 cents.
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Bruegger, I don't doubt you at all! My uncle had some old WW II armor plate around the place, so we set some down at 100 yards and "went testing". GI Ball would make a crater, but not penetrate. The AP would make a cratered hole, but the 150-grain Hornady handload's hole-diameter was greater.
With two layers C-clamped together, the AP wouldn't quite go through. The handload would, but it looked like "just barely".
From the dustbin,
, Art
With two layers C-clamped together, the AP wouldn't quite go through. The handload would, but it looked like "just barely".
From the dustbin,
, ArtHere's a shot of the way M2 AP is put together; the .30-06 round is at the far right, showing the outer jacket w. base cup, lead point filler, and AP core. When I tested this stuff vs. hunting ammo (3/4" mild steel), the AP would zip on through, while the hunting ammo punched a crater halfway through the plate.
SHEESH, man , ties are WOOD. and yes, the 06
AP rd was rated as being able to pierce 6FT of wood. it was also rated at being able to pierce 1" of MILD STEEL. So much for an engine block NOT stopping o6, eh? At ANY RANGE, on hard objects, this ammo will HANDILY beat out any other type of bullet, for depth of penetration but it takes TWO of them, in virtually the same spot, to peirce 4" of woven wire fence reinforced concrete. So much for "not being able to hide from an 06". Any decent brick building suffices handily, as is shown in any ww2 documentary film.
AP rd was rated as being able to pierce 6FT of wood. it was also rated at being able to pierce 1" of MILD STEEL. So much for an engine block NOT stopping o6, eh? At ANY RANGE, on hard objects, this ammo will HANDILY beat out any other type of bullet, for depth of penetration but it takes TWO of them, in virtually the same spot, to peirce 4" of woven wire fence reinforced concrete. So much for "not being able to hide from an 06". Any decent brick building suffices handily, as is shown in any ww2 documentary film.
Edward429451
Moderator
Uhhh, I guess I had a brain fart. I thought you meant the steel rails, yea thats it they're called rails...
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
Golgo, non-corrosive for the '06 came in around 1954. I don't remember if it was after 1953, or after 1954.
I think that somebody posted here that all GI Carbine ammo is non-corrosive. All military .308 is non-corrosive, SFAIK.
Art
I think that somebody posted here that all GI Carbine ammo is non-corrosive. All military .308 is non-corrosive, SFAIK.
Art