Hey guys, I live in Australia ( unfortunately as I love guns/shooting ) and have given serious thought to emigrating to the U.S because of our ridiculous laws but I keep seeing on forums like this and other media, various attempts by politicians and general anti's to place more restrictions on you guys. I can see why ( some ) politicians would do this but, at the risk of sounding stupid, how could the courts ( supreme or otherwise ) uphold any of these anti gun laws which are blatently in breach of the constitution. I was under the opinion that courts were supposed to enforce the law regardless of politics. In short doesn't the bill of rights trump ANY b.s piece of anti gun legislation. Thanks.
2ND Amendment question from an Australian
- Thread starter alizeefan
- Start date
SamHouston
New member
We in the US wonder the exact same thing. It's the typical take a little bit, compromise, give a little more and pretty soon you've given it all away and the 2nd Amendment will mean nothing.
As we watch our presidential elections we worry about our fragile rights slipping away. On the good side, with sites such as this we are able to communicate and more people are aware of the possiblities of what could happen.
Luckily, being from Texas guns and self defense are a large part of our history and culture. Although, It's a fight where we should take nothing for granted.
Someone on here has a signature line that says it all.... the 2nd amendment guarantees the 1st amendment rights.
As we watch our presidential elections we worry about our fragile rights slipping away. On the good side, with sites such as this we are able to communicate and more people are aware of the possiblities of what could happen.
Luckily, being from Texas guns and self defense are a large part of our history and culture. Although, It's a fight where we should take nothing for granted.
Someone on here has a signature line that says it all.... the 2nd amendment guarantees the 1st amendment rights.
Thanks for the reply, I don't necessarily even see this as a " gun " issue but one of upholding the highest laws ( The magnificent constitution and it's bill of rights ) , after all there are all sorts of problems with first amendment issues these days as well. I see it as black and white. The courts ( and politicians ) are there to uphold the constitution and the constitution says your right to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.... end of story.
Welcome. Read the mega thread which is stuck to the top of the forum, and read all the legal briefs linked to it. Although the situation should be as you describe, it is not.
The response, boiled down, is that the 2nd amendment protects the right of states to form militias, and forbids the federal government from disarming or otherwise interfering with the formation of a militia. The founding era understanding of a militia was a body of citizen-soldiers. The modern left wing understanding is a body of state soldiers, the National Guard.
So if you're in the National Guard, your official weapons are protected. If you're not, the 2nd amendment doesn't apply to you. This is, of course, ridiculous, and we're having a whole big Supreme Court case about it right now, hence the mega thread.
The response, boiled down, is that the 2nd amendment protects the right of states to form militias, and forbids the federal government from disarming or otherwise interfering with the formation of a militia. The founding era understanding of a militia was a body of citizen-soldiers. The modern left wing understanding is a body of state soldiers, the National Guard.
So if you're in the National Guard, your official weapons are protected. If you're not, the 2nd amendment doesn't apply to you. This is, of course, ridiculous, and we're having a whole big Supreme Court case about it right now, hence the mega thread.
toybox99615
New member
emigrating
alizeefan if you are seriously considering emigrating to the US you should not let the 2nd amendment issues deter you.
alizeefan if you are seriously considering emigrating to the US you should not let the 2nd amendment issues deter you.
I have been to the western U.S twice and it is a great place but the overwhelming reason for me to move would be the individual freedoms you enjoy, and for me this is the GUARENTEED RIGHT to own and carry firearms. I get increasingly worried and in all honesty do not want to undertake such a move if you end up losing such rights. I mean no disrespect to anyone because I respect the U.S and her people a great deal but if the courts/politicians can just ignore the bill of rights ( which as I have read it there is no other way to interpret the words ) whenever it suits them then the constitution really guarentees nothing. This leads me back to my original question and my confusion. As publius42 said there is a big court case at the moment but if these rights are truly GUARENTEED by the bill of rights why is it even before the courts at all.
mountainclmbr
New member
When left wing judges are appointed that is how the guaranteed right can be taken away. When you can argue that left is right, right is wrong, darkness is light, peace and justice is the mass murder of those who disagree with you, etc, it is not a leap or even a baby step to argue that the 2A means the opposite of what it says and what the historical documents say about it.
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Hugh Damright
New member
For one thing, the USBOR wasn't intended to guarantee rights, it was intended to limit the federal government. For another, police powers, including gun control powers, are reserved to each State.
SamHouston
New member
alizeefan you would love many of the open western or southern states, but do your homework and stay away from the 5-6 states that restrict your freedoms. As I see it, we in the US have made great strides in keeping our firearms. I now carry on a daily basis and the trend among my friends & family is growing.
It's a battle that needs to be fought.
It's a battle that needs to be fought.
Come on people like you are always welcomed. Individual Rights I have never met anyone who has said that is why they moved here. Come on over brother and make yourself at home. It sounds like you keep up with the issues quite often so I assume you know which states here have their own BS laws.
spctim11
. What I truly hate is hypocracy. The government has said that self defense is not a valid reason for owning a gun yet if your a politician or a cop apparently it is. Worst of all is that the overwhelming majority of the people here don't want to be allowed to protect themselves, then they run around yelling how terrible it is that a home invader just bashed someone into a coma. IDIOTS 
Thanks for the invite. I honestly get more depressed everyday here. Australia over the last 10-15 years has become a true socialist country. The MINIMUM tax rate is about 33% and the do gooders run everything. They were calling for trampolines to be banned because a kid fell off and broke his arm
. What I truly hate is hypocracy. The government has said that self defense is not a valid reason for owning a gun yet if your a politician or a cop apparently it is. Worst of all is that the overwhelming majority of the people here don't want to be allowed to protect themselves, then they run around yelling how terrible it is that a home invader just bashed someone into a coma. IDIOTS toybox99615
New member
opinions differ
My mates down under say they'd never leave. So I guess like in the states opinions differ as to whats to stay and who like to leave.
Me, I'd like trying living in Australia for two or three years. But the immigration is far to complex at my age. I even had an offer to take a position teaching but the immigration people got in the way of my taking it.
My mates down under say they'd never leave. So I guess like in the states opinions differ as to whats to stay and who like to leave.
Me, I'd like trying living in Australia for two or three years. But the immigration is far to complex at my age. I even had an offer to take a position teaching but the immigration people got in the way of my taking it.
opinions differ
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Don't get me wrong, if it was more about individual rights and not the " hive " mentality this would still be a great place to live. Who know's, maybe I just need to meet a 21 year old beach bunny and I would have something else to do with my time and not worry so much about things that annoy me.
.WeedWacker
New member
A true beach bunny would deprive you of your desire to be un-annoyed if the said beach bunny is a true beach bunny with the IQ baked off like water in a potato. Maybe in short bursts you could stand the company but long term... heck maybe two beachbunnies and you'll be fine
The fact that it's in the courts (and not the streets) means our system is still working, at least somewhat. It was expected that politicians would step outside the bounds of the Constitution. We have a way to reel them back in: challenge the constitutionality of their actions in court. Sometimes, it even works!
The 2nd amendment is anomalous in that we're now having our second Supreme Court case about it in the last hundred years. We have court cases about other parts of the Constitution and Bill of Rights all the time.
A governments primary concern is to protect itself....
the founding fathers knew this....they also realized how easy it was for governments and politicians to forget the people they are supposed to serve.
Here's a totally non gun example... My state S.C.'s constitution says gambling is illegal.. video poker machines were illegal if they 'payed off' but there were a few in the state... yearly fee was $100 bucks... then we had a hurricane that cost the state a lot of money... the video poker owners (we'll call them the southern mafia) pointed out that if the state raized the cost for a permit from $100 to a $1000 and they brought in 100x the machines and decided video poker was not gambling the debt would be paid off.... So the politicians quickly decided video poker was not gambling...go figure. Then they started looking around at other states and discovered that a state lottery would make the state even more money.... so guess what video poker got re-made illegal and a state run lottery is now 'not gambling.'
the founding fathers knew this....they also realized how easy it was for governments and politicians to forget the people they are supposed to serve.
Here's a totally non gun example... My state S.C.'s constitution says gambling is illegal.. video poker machines were illegal if they 'payed off' but there were a few in the state... yearly fee was $100 bucks... then we had a hurricane that cost the state a lot of money... the video poker owners (we'll call them the southern mafia) pointed out that if the state raized the cost for a permit from $100 to a $1000 and they brought in 100x the machines and decided video poker was not gambling the debt would be paid off.... So the politicians quickly decided video poker was not gambling...go figure. Then they started looking around at other states and discovered that a state lottery would make the state even more money.... so guess what video poker got re-made illegal and a state run lottery is now 'not gambling.'
The advantage of federalism is that individual states can go their own way. This is the idea behind the Free State Project - http://www.freestateproject.org/ - which has a goal of relocating 20,000 activists for individual liberty and limited government to the state of New Hampshire in order to protect and expand individual liberty.
We've only gotten a few hundred movers so far, but already we've made great strides in homeschooling and other realms of personal liberty. Between the established and new organizations, we have packed hearings for gun bills in Concord and made our voices heard loud and clear.
The most recent victory (not yet complete) was beating back an attempt to ban possession of firearms in the State House and Legislative Office Building introduced by an oath-violating state rep.
Check out http://www.nhliberty.org/ as well, and its forum. The organization was founded by Free Staters and has been extremely active in tracking legislation and keeping people informed about legislative actions affecting freedom.
We have a handful of people who've moved here from out of country as well, and more members of the project who are hoping to do so.
If you can get a tourist visa, consider coming to the Porcupine Festival in June.
Regardless of which way the Supreme Court goes, New Hampshire has Article-2a: "All persons have the right to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves, their families, their property and the state."
We've only gotten a few hundred movers so far, but already we've made great strides in homeschooling and other realms of personal liberty. Between the established and new organizations, we have packed hearings for gun bills in Concord and made our voices heard loud and clear.
The most recent victory (not yet complete) was beating back an attempt to ban possession of firearms in the State House and Legislative Office Building introduced by an oath-violating state rep.
Check out http://www.nhliberty.org/ as well, and its forum. The organization was founded by Free Staters and has been extremely active in tracking legislation and keeping people informed about legislative actions affecting freedom.
We have a handful of people who've moved here from out of country as well, and more members of the project who are hoping to do so.
If you can get a tourist visa, consider coming to the Porcupine Festival in June.
Regardless of which way the Supreme Court goes, New Hampshire has Article-2a: "All persons have the right to keep and bear arms in defense of themselves, their families, their property and the state."
Vermont has been the locus of the "Hippie State Project," I gather, over the years. The only reason they don't have any gun laws is because the Supreme Court recognized the plain meaning of the original right to arms in the state constitution and smacked gun control down hard back in the 1920's or so. If only New Hampshire's framers had had the foresight to include Article 2a in the original constitution, we'd probably have no gun laws too.
But we DO have no income and no sales tax.
But we DO have no income and no sales tax.