.270 vs level III AR500

Can .270 defeat level III AR500 armor?

  • Yes, it gets through

    Votes: 4 66.7%

  • No, armor stops it

    Votes: 2 33.3%
  • Total voters
    6
  • Poll closed .
A

Andrew Wiggin

New member
A lot of people have been asking for this one so here it is. This is a factory Winchester Super-X 130 gr soft point fired from a Remington 700 against an AR500Armor.com level III plate with the buildup coating. Sorry, no velocity readings as this was an impromptu test, but according to http://www.ballistics101.com/270_winchester.php the velocity should be about 3,060 fps at the muzzle. This plate is rated for M80 ball at 2,750 fps. Feel free to make predictions before watching the test.

Link to test video
 
.308 cores AR500 at about 70 to 80 yards and in, so sure.

The thing about "AR500" plates being sold is that even if they do stop a bullet, the spray fan will lay flesh open like a knife through butter.
 
I'm not sure what you mean by "cores" but level III plates are rated to stop 7.62x51mm M80 FMJ at 2,750 fps or less. Unless you use some very high velocity .308, it is not getting through. As for the fragmentation coating, the plates are offered with a buildup coating as seen in the video, which is very effective. There is another video on my channel where I shoot this same plate ten times with Norinco steel core 7.62x39mm and it contains all the fragments. You are also mistaken about the degree to which those fragments will injure. A couple years back, I laid a gelatin block next to an AR500 target and shot it several times with Yugoslavian M67. Without any protection at all (remember gelatin blocks don't have skin), the fragments mostly penetrated about a half inch, with some larger fragments getting about 2 1/2" deep. With two layers of denim, which is far less cut resistant than the nylon that plate carriers are made from, the deepest fragments only went about 1 1/2" in. This is enough to cause a very painful wound, but unless you are very unlucky and take a fragment at exactly the right angle to get your brachial or carotid arteries, the fragments are unlikely to be life threatening.
 
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Well, since the ammo exceeded the AR500 rating at the distance that it was shot I would predict that it would penetrate. Duh...:rolleyes:

Will a 270 penetrate? It depends on the velocity and the thickness of the metal. This is really kind of dumb. :D
 
Andrew, I said AR500, and yes, it will core, which is the bullet punching out a cylinder of the plate. Thickness is a part of the equation. When you understand that all AR500 plate is not equal and the AR rating is abrasion resistance for heavy machinery blades and buckets, then the analysis of fracture toughness comes into play.

You can use gelatin and say I am mistaken...I'll rely on the testing I have done which shows very different results. An NDA prevents me from naming the entity I did the ballistics testing for, and how, but it was not ballistic gelatin, which is a comparative medium.
 
You made a categorical blanket statement that is simply incorrect. This plate, like many other level III plates, is made from AR500. It is rated to stop 7.62x51mm and will stop virtually any .308. It will also contain the fragments from multiple shots.
 
Rancid, these plates tend to exceed their rating by a fair margin and it has previously taken about 3,200 fps to get through them. It wasn't as obvious as it might seem.
 
Actually, you made two very general statements, which is the opposite of a very specific statement. There are certainly some very specific conditions in which the statement ".308 penetrates AR500 at 60 yards" would be correct. One condition would be using 0.10" AR500, instead of the 1/4" that's used for this armor. Another might be using an M61 projectile loaded to SAAMI max for .308 Win. But those are irrelevant to this discussion. In the context of level III AR500 armor, .308 does not penetrate at ten feet, let alone 60 yards. Moreover, your statement about fragmentation is technically correct, insofar as uncoated plates go, but the standard is to apply a thick Paxcon coating.

Stop trying to scare people with inaccurate statements. Steel armor does have some very real limitations, but the ones you gave are not relevant.
 
Not trying to scare anyone, just provide information. All of my statements relate to AR500 plate at 3/8" thick, which is thicker than 1/4", using commercially available ammo. A manufacturer who made the same statements you are making lost a huge contract due to his ignorance of material interaction of bullets with AR500 steel...because he was wrong.

Sure, there are some treatments, as you have correctly stated, that affect the performance. But there are companies selling non-coated AR500 plate as "armor" with a cloth cover. Some bullet types do better, some worse. There are better, but more expensive solutions.

I don't take this lightly. As a ballistics/forensic/materials engineer who conducts these types of tests professionally, I have run a good number of tests on steel and bullet steel interactions. I don't get to post a video on the internet...my tests have to withstand the scrutiny of science and often dissection by another ballistics engineer. Your test is, from a scientific basis, one data point. That does not transfer to your assertions regarding .308 and AR500 steel.

I will leave you to your thread as there is really nothing else to say.
 
My testing is not relevant. I do not collect a statistically relevant sample size or perform the tests in sufficiently controlled conditions. That's not the issue here. I'm criticizing your categorically false statement that ".308 cores AR500 at about 70 to 80 yards" and "The thing about "AR500" plates being sold is that even if they do stop a bullet, the spray fan will lay flesh open like a knife through butter." Both of those statements are incorrect. Either you are mistaken or you are lying, but those statements are demonstrably false.
 
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