.22LR: target pistols and competition pistols

K

Kicker

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Hello everyone, thanks for letting me in :)

I'm about to buy my first .22LR pistol for target shooting. I always shoot at 25m (27y), and I'm looking for a gun that will allow me to do straight 10s (provided I use good ammo, and that I eventually get the skill needed).

Now, I've seen many comparisons between target pistols (SW22 Victory and model 41, Buckmarks, Ruger MkIIIs, Beretta 87T, etc.), I've also seen many comparisons between competition pistols (Pardini SP, Tesro, Walther GSP, etc.)...

But I wonder if there is a target pistol that can even get close to the precision of a competition pistol, and if not, how big is the gap between, let's say... a SW22 Victory, and a Walther GSP...

Thanks in advance !
 
Based on what you said I don't think you'll be happy with less than an Olympic grade target .22 like the Pardini you mentioned.

But if I wanted one of the 'economy target' .22's I guess I'd give the nod to the S&W Model 41.

Personally I've found the Ruger Mark anythings to be good enough for me and the club competitions I've shot in which were not really competitive mostly just fun.
 
Another idea to get "close" without spending the full two grand or so (honestly... I am not sure... maybe they cost even more?) is to look for a used Sig Trailside. Actually made by Hammerli, these were imported and branded by Sig for a handful of years.

If you demand new, they come now via... hmmm, Walther, I think? And they are branded as the X-Esse.

But I do agree that a S&W Model 41 may be a great choice. I have a little bit of experience with them and I have certainly read my fair share. Some of them require patience and tuning... the Model 41 can be quirky.
 
High Standard Victor for me. Remember you will have to find out what brand of ammunition the pistol prefers.
 
I had a Hammerli Xesse Sport, by Walther. The Sport has the longer barrel and adjustable rear sight. I shot mine with open sights, but wound up installing the optics rail & using a red dot sight. Very accurate handgun. I'd like to have another one.

I regularly shoot a newer S&W PC Model 41. I used the open sights for awhile, but now use red dot sights on the intregal rail. I've used Burris FastFire III and a SightMark. Tried to mount a C-More on the rail yesterday, the sight is too long to fit.

I also shoot Rugers, Mark ii and Mark iii. I use scopes on two of them; and red dots on the others. They are all "match/competition/target" models with Volquartsen Accurizing Kits.

All of the guns are capable of hitting 1/2 dots at 25 yards, but the groups are larger.

I'm 78; at 15 yards and beyond, I need red dots, or scopes.
 
My blue collar perspective; My Ruger Mk III hunter, pushed the envelope on my budget at the time but a very fine shooter, not to fussy on ammo 1225-1250ish fps, love it's accuracy up to to 10m or so (partially due to my skills). Yes their are better but on my budget I only pay 'Top Dollar' for milk and butter. Love me some Sassy Cow Creamery. :D
 
First question needs to be "What is your budget?". The sky is the limit when it comes to target pistols. I would say invest in a decent gun so you don't have to upgrade right away.
 
Well, I live in France, a not-very-gun-friendly country. And depending on where the gun comes from, taxes differ, but they are always very high.
For example, the S&W model 41 and Pardini SP New both cost 1800€ here (roughly $2000).
That's why I was mostly asking about accuracy comparison, and not budget.
Because prices here are inconsistent, and I need to know exactly what I'm going to buy if I don't want to get ripped off.
I was getting interested in the Victory because it's far more affordable than a model 41 (600€/$680).
I'd like to avoid paying more than $1000...
 
If a S&W 41 costs $2000 where you are, you're not going to find much for $1000. My nephew just bought a very good used S&W 41 for $900 here in the states. If available to you, look into a Baikal IZH35M. I bought one in 2002 for $400 then another in 2003 for $410. You might find a good used one to fit your budget. Mine will not shoot cheap ammo. Target grade only. (It does best with RWS Target Pistol) But will easily hold the X-ring of a B8 target at 25 yards from a sandbag rest.
 
In accuracy comparing a new S&W Victory to a Model 41, please consider:

like most .22 pistols, you have a fixed barrel and S&W makes a quality barrel. Accuracy, mechanically speaking, I have little doubt that a Victory would fare quite well up against a Model 41. But that's mechanical accuracy and a fixed-barrel rimfire -- MOST fixed barrel .22's are simply going to be very accurate pistols.

The Victory is a new to market and dressed-up Model 22A. At the risk of offending any new owners of these, let me just say BLLEECCCHH. When comparing the Victory to a 41, you WILL be getting less quality, far cheaper materials, far worse sights, a trigger that isn't even in the same hemisphere... Basically, you will be pitting one of the cheapest .22's S&W has ever built up against S&W's legend.

I could probably come up with a dozen rimfire pistols I would rather chase, buy, own and love before even considering the Victory.

With all that said, could the Victory be as "accurate" as a 41? Highly possible I think, but you would have to be a Master Class Bullseye shooter yourself to squeeze the same accuracy out of one in your own hands, dealing mostly with the sights and trigger.
 
Thanks for your advice.
I saw a used Beretta 87T recently at 500€ (it's 800€ new), but I've read bad things about its trigger...
Should I still consider buying it? I also saw a Unique DES69 for even cheaper, which is a competition pistol... (but I don't really expect people here to know a lot about discontinued French firearms :) )
 
A shooting bud had one of these: Feinwerkbau AW93





My recollection it was an amazing pistol, might have had a recoiling counterweight. A top of the line 22 LR.

I have been shooting 2700 Bullseye pistol and doing well with my S&W M46 (a M41 variant) and my Ruger MKII. Both of these pistols will hold the X ring of the standard NRA 25 yard target, and if I could hold harder, probably at 50 yards.



Of the pistols I see on the Bullseye firing line, the S&W M41’s are the most common, Rugers about second. The Master class shooters are shooting 1911’s with 22 LR conversion kits. The M41 is a lot easier to disassemble and assemble than my Ruger MKII. This is a common compliant about the Ruger MK1, MKII and MkIII, getting that hammer strut in and mainspring aligned is very frustrating. The M41 trigger is better and it has a trigger stop; the Ruger needs one. I can’t say the inherent accuracy of the S&W M41 is better. I can’t shoot tight enough to tell a difference. I think the Ruger MKII and MKIII are inherently accurate pistols and a good buy for someone looking for a reasonably priced target pistol.

I don’t recommend any of the vintage High Standards unless you can get one for a song. Old timers love the things, but the things have been out of production for decades, and I don’t know if an optical sight can be put on them. An optical sight is the only way to go in my opinion, you can see where the gun was pointed when the trigger breaks.

I do believe the high dollar competition pistols are more accurate, they certainty have more bells and whistles. I don't know if I will ever be good enough of a pistol shot to take advantage of their accuracy advantage. I am certain that if I was good enough of a shot, I could clean the targets with either a Ruger or a M41, the fact that I am not doing this is a reflection of my marksmanship skills, not the inherent accuracy of either pistol type.
 
A shooting bud had one of these: Feinwerkbau AW93

My recollection it was an amazing pistol, might have had a recoiling counterweight. A top of the line 22 LR.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I'll keep this in mind. I think I saw a used one for exactly $1000 somewhere...
 
No need to "bow out", we are not the snooty type! My highest round count rimfire is my circa-1994 KMK-512. That is Ruger-speak for the Mark II Stainless with 5.5" bull barrel.

If you love your MkIII Hunter and you want to love it even more, do what I did a couple months ago: throw $90 at a Volquartsen hammer, sear and trigger kit and take a fantastic pistol and make it even BETTER. :D
 
Another vote for the Hammerli Trailside/Xesse, if you can get one for a reasonable price. They are very accurate for their price range, and come with a good trigger that can be made much better for not much more money.
 
I put a Vortex Venom on my 41 last weekend and was shooting 3" groups at 50 yards from a cheap sandbag. If my eyes were younger and the dot was smaller the 41 is capable of much better than I will ever do.

That said, I would love to try a Victory. And there are already aftermarket barrels available if needed.
 
In todays Bullseye matches you see a majority of Rugers in the 22 matches.

You'll find out they are a heck of a lot more accurate then most of the people who shoot them.

The 41's and High Standards of the past are excellent, my Victor is still one of the most accurate pistols I have. But magazines wear out, and its nearly impossible to find a after market mag for the Victor that works.

I'd recommend getting a good Ruger, a ton of quality ammo, (that works with your gun) and shooting it until you can out shoot the gun, then consider moving to the higher price Walters or similar pistols.
 
The place to start is by deciding how much money you can/want to spend. And the thing has to fit your hand. Changing grips can sometimes fix that. It will not fix 'too big of a frame' though.
Best bullseye shooters I knew, with the money, used Walthers with the occasional Unique or Hammerli. No optics allowed in ISU(now ISS), then. So the brand of target shooting matters.
By American prices(that don't apply anywhere but Stateside), the SW22 Victory is an entry level pistol. MSRP starts at $409.00USD. A 41 runs over a grand USD($1369.00 MSRP), but is not an entry level pistol.
"...you see a majority of Rugers..."All new guys? Rugers are entry level too. Soon dumped for pistols that have good triggers(Ruger triggers are crappy) and aren't a friggin' nightmare to work on. Limits a new guy a lot.
However, A Ruger usually goes bang every time. Usually at least cycles with most ammo too. You will still have to try a box of as many brands of ammo as you can to find the ammo any .22 will both cycle and shoot well. Those 10's are 99% about your skill.
 
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