.22lr ammo designated for pistols

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simonrichter

New member
Although .22lr is not that powerful, particularly when shooting indoor, the muzzle blast and bang is considerably when it comes through the shorter barrel of a pistol (compared to a rifle barrel).

When I shoot at indoor ranges that don't have a great sound insulation, I sometimes switch to the underpowered 22lr "Z" round which produces a considerably milder blast and crack. Problem is that it does not cycle the action, which is fine for a few shots but not the spirit and purpose of a semiauto, after all.

Is there any kind of "milder" 22lr ammo that still cycles the action? I have already tried "RWS target pistol", yet there was no great difference compared to standard Remington or federal bulk, apart from the price (which is about double).
 
I'm no expert but most 22 pistols are blowback in operation and need a certain 'oomph' from the powder charge to push the slide back. I suppose you could try some subsonic rounds with a heavier bullet, if they sell those in Austria.
 
.22 pistols are difficult to modify to work with less powerful rounds.
The recoil spring, and hammer spring can be changed, but the weight of the bolt is also part of the design.
It's easier to just use a revolver.
A rimfire revolver is about as fast to shoot as the auto loader.
Just a thought.
 
I am not clear on whether the problem is the noise affecting the shooter, or affecting others. If the former, the solution is simply to wear hearing protection.

There is .22 LR ammunition made especially for pistols and sold under such names as "pistol match" that has a significantly lower sound level than most .22 LR, yet will function most pistols with no problems.

Jim
 
IMO (and please correct me if I am wrong), I would think that any .22LR subsonic/standard/target ammo with velocities less than the speed of sound shot through a pistol barrel would have less decibel noise than a HV round that obtained greater than the speed of sound through the same barrel.

When I was a kid in Detroit (mid 60's) my Dad had a 50' range in the basement with a 1/4" steel bullet trap that would handle all manner of .22's (pistols, rifles, & .22 Mag) and up to "standard" velocity lead .38 Special loads in a pistol. Back then, we had no hearing protection (stupid: yes) but it wasn't loud enough to bother us when shooting. :rolleyes:

I have a homebuilt 1911 (stripped frame up/ Numrich/SARCO parts) with a 1994 Ciener .22 Conversion kit that cycles very well with any thing I feed it. Caveat: it has a 19# Wolff mainspring as opposed to the standard .45 ACP 23# mainspring.

Jim
 
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the solution is simply to wear hearing protection
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in indoor ranges, it still makes a huge difference in my experience: While a normal load is still loud even through hearing protection (might be that I'm a little bit sensitive in this regard, but it makes my ears hum after some magazines), said low-powered ammunition is not.

And I also don't like the visible muzzle blast...
 
simonrichter said:
Is there any kind of "milder" 22lr ammo that still cycles the action?
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No.

Most semi-auto .22 pistols specify high-velocity .22LR only. I've known of people who, after some thousands of rounds of hi-vel for "break-in," have been able to run standard velocity .22LR and have their pistols function, but it's the exception rather than the rule. There are also a very few semi-autos that claim to function on any .22LR ammo. Again, that's the exception rather than the rule.

If standard power ammo won't cycle the gun, it's extremely unlikely that any specialty, low-power ammo will work.
 
In case you aren't already, ear plugs then ear muffs on top can go a long way. I believes it makes it easier for me to work on flinch prevention
 
It's easier to just use a revolver.
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I find revolvers really loud, even with low power ammo, because of the cylinder to barrel gap that allows high pressure gas to escape while the pressure is still very high.
Aguila Colibris shot through my S&W model 41 semi auto are much quieter than out of a revolver. It's just that the pistol is now a manually operated repeater instead of a semi-auto.
Even with long rifle high velocity ammo, there's a noticeable difference in sound level between the pistol and a revolver of similar barrel length.
 
Most semi-auto .22 pistols specify high-velocity .22LR only.
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There are a lot of us that have the little Phoenix HP-22 that specifically says to not use high-velocity ammo. I have had mine for several years and I have never had problems with cycling except for some Thunderbolts I have used where there was occasionally a weak one.
 
Get proper hearing and eye protection and man or woman up. I started my niece and nephew and my great nephew using Ruger and Hawes .22s when they were three. My great nephew is now seven and he shoots my .32 H&R by himself.

He has no flinching or whining about muzzle blast and he hits my steel reactive targets at 50 feet.

Muzzle blast from a .22 good grief........
 
Most semi-auto .22 pistols specify high-velocity .22LR only. I've known of people who, after some thousands of rounds of hi-vel for "break-in," have been able to run standard velocity .22LR and have their pistols function, but it's the exception rather than the rule. There are also a very few semi-autos that claim to function on any .22LR ammo. Again, that's the exception rather than the rule.
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That may be these days. Unless one has a 1911 .22 conversion kit with a light Ciener factory recoil spring and a light mainspring (19#), my 1992 Ciener Conversion Kit works with just about anything. Lots of folks badmouth current Ciener stuff, but 20+ years ago he marketed good conversions.

If standard power ammo won't cycle the gun, it's extremely unlikely that any specialty, low-power ammo will work.
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Other than BB caps, CB caps, and .22 shorts/longs, please enlighten me about the differences between .22 LR standard/target/subsonic velocity ammo that shoots below the speed of sound.
 
Its simple physics. You have to have enough counter force (force opposite and equal to the bullet being pushed out the barrel) to move the slide and all the moving parts.
The more stuff that needs to move the move round you need going down barrel.
High end target 22 pistols are designed to operate with subsonic 40 grain. They are very nicely engineered, manufactured very well.
on an everyday shooter, the action of shooting a lot does polish the parts that rub, reducing friction. Using a high grade synthetic oil on the touch points does help a tiny bit. All these things together and you may be able to get good results with a softer (subsonic) round, but that's a big maybe. Depends a lot on the gun.
consider a S&W model 41 ($1,000+) or a Hammerli Xesse ($700+) as these are genuine target grade pistols for less than the $2000 price tag of high end target pistols) Both are intended to run on subsonic ammo. Seems a shame to run cheep stuff through them though. Should use something like Wolf Target at least.
You could also consider bolt action, single shot like this. I have one of these in walnut and I love plinking with it. price about $200
http://www.chipmunkrifles.com/chipmunk_22_pistol.php
pistolwalnut_both.jpg

Note: bullets traveling faster than sound break the sound barrier and thus make a much louder crack sound. Thus sub-sonic is much softer.
 
Note: bullets traveling faster than sound break the sound barrier and thus make a much louder crack sound. Thus sub-sonic is much softer.
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According to my chronograph, even regular high velocity ammo is sub-sonic out of most normal pistol length barrels, unless you have one of those long barreled horse-pistols shown in the previous post.
 
AKexpat said:
Other than BB caps, CB caps, and .22 shorts/longs, please enlighten me about the differences between .22 LR standard/target/subsonic velocity ammo that shoots below the speed of sound.
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Using Winchester as an example, their standard velocity loading is the XT22LR. It uses a 40-grain bullet, and produces 1150 fps muzzle velocity and 117 ft-lbs of muzzle energy. Their two high velocity cartridges are the X22LR and the X22LRSS1. The slower of those two uses the same 40-grain bullet as the standard velocity, and generates 1255 fps muzzle velocity (9 percent more than the standard velocity) and 140 ft-lbs of muzzle energy (20 percent more than the standard velocity). CCI Mini-Mags, which is the ammo most .22 semi-auto makers seem to recommend, also uses a 40-grain bullet, with 1235 fps muzzle velocity and 135 ft-lbs of muzzle energy.

Winchester's subsonic load also uses a 40-grain bullet. Muzzle velocity is 1065 fps (9 percent slower than their standard velocity), and generates 101 ft-lbs 0f muzzle energy (14 percent less than the standard velocity).
 
In dry air at 20 °C (68 °F), the speed of sound is 343.59 meters per second (1,127 ft/s). This is 1,236 kilometers per hour (667 kn; 768 mph), or a kilometer in 2.914 seconds or a mile in 4.689 seconds.

Any round leaving the barrel at more than 1,127 feet per second, or for sure more than 1,150 is not sub-sonic. It will be super sonic and make a much louder "crack".

If you want a round that is not as loud, you need one that is slower than 1,100 ft/s. Then you need a gun that will cycle with that ammo.

Many semi-autos get finicky with subsonic ammo.
High end target guns are designed to run sub-sonic since breaking the sound barrier, and more so slowing from super sonic to near the sound barrier, produces turbulence that can effect the trajectory. So target shooters prefer to avoid that problem and keep it sub-sonic. Thus, better quality target guns are designed for sub sonic.
If you want another type gun, and you want it quieter, you want sub-sonic and it may or may not cycle, depends on the gun. Some will improve with "breaking in" some will not.
You also want a full grain bullet, in 22 that means 40 grain, since it requires more force to move 40 grains than 32 (or any amount less that 40) Thus the 40 grain will give you the most reaction force to move the action, without exceeding the sound barrier.
so, the round you are looking for is 40 grain, that goes between !,000 and 1100, or as close to 1100 as possible without exceeding it.
In checking ammo rating, remember they don't all use the same gun or same barrel length to get there ft/s rating. So you will probably have to try 3 or 4 that are in the right ball park, and see which works best for you

Also "standard" v does not always mean sub-sonic,
 
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softmentor said:
Also "standard" v does not always mean sub-sonic,
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I have never taken "standard" to mean subsonic. That's why a couple of ammo makers sell a specialty round they label as "subsonic."

That said, the published velocities for just about all .22LR ammo are for a rifle-length barrel. I don't know what the reference barrel length is, but it's 20 inches or more. The velocity out of a pistol-length barrel will be less, but without shooting a bunch of ammo through a chronometer it's anybody's guess how much less.
 
to throw in another aspect: I'm well aware that you need a certain impulse in order to cycle the blowback action. Yet it appears to me that anyway it won't add much to the momentum if a huge amount of powder burns AFTER the muzzle. I guess it should be possible to achieve the same velocity for the bullet by using faster burning powder that is already done when the bullet leaves the barrel.
Actually that was the point of my question, I'm well aware that lower powered 22lr are not suitable for semiautos. But does HV necessarily mean using a slow burning rifle barrel powder?
 
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