.224 Actual Diameters

thatguy11

Inactive
So I hit a first today, but most likely its more of a norm than I suppose. While I haven't exactly been loading for a long time, I've never loaded/shot a .223 round that measured much over .224. Just bought a crapton of those RMR 69 3 GH (yeah.. SMALL BATCH FIRST!) and the first thing I noticed is that they are measuring out to .225. Hmmmm, problem? I wanted to load them similar to the Berger 69 grain match... but those suckers are .224 on the nose.

So here it is... .224 bullets measuring .225.. problem? Any thoughts on adjusting for the fatness?

Thaaanks!
 
Do I see a problem? No. That said what did you use to measure the bullet diameters? Vernier Caliper, Digital Caliper or a good quality micrometer or blade micrometer, digital or mechanical? I can see a caliper being off by 0.001". Anyway would a 0.224" bullet measuring 0.225" be a problem? My guess is no.

Ron
 
Hey, appreciate the reply. Yeah, I'm using some digital calipers, Igauge. Not top of the line, but certainly accurate and I'm measuring knowns to these, so pretty sure of the measurement.

I also know a lot of other folks are shooting these... so, I mean, that alone should be a good sign! Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something I guess.

Thanks again!
 
Naw, you aren't missing anything. They should shoot just fine with a 0.225" diameter. I would not worry about it.

Ron
 
I think about all the millions of rounds of .311" Russian ammo that went down the bores of all those early mini thirties with .308" bores, i stop worrying about .001"
 
thatguy11 asked:
Any thoughts on adjusting for the fatness?

Yes.

Treat this as you would any other component change and develop the load from scratch. This means beginning with the Starting Load and working your way up.

Also, for peace of mind, don't take critical measurements with inexpensive calipers; spend the money and get a decent 0-1" micrometer.
 
Add another one for ACCURATE measuring tools...
When you start measuring to 0.001", then it's time for a high quality accurate measuring tool.

I'll go one further, get a 'Standard' to check that measuring tool with!
So it's got a 'Zero'... Big deal.
When the square jaws are closed, it's 'Zeroed', but you have no idea at all what it's doing down the rest of the scale. Standards aren't expensive and if you don't use them for 'Punches' they will last a lifetime.

I'll go two further,
If it's a caliper, learn to adjust the damned sliding jaw!
Loose jaws are inaccurate!

As for the bullet, the wider it is, the longer it's going to get when it's forced into the bore.
The bore is a fixed diameter, a 'Fatter' bullet MUST get longer to fit into the bore, it's got nowhere else to go.
This WILL effect chamber pressure, so like some others have said, work up your load for these bullets.
 
cptjack:
I check my calipers with snap on feeler gauges

Then what do you check the feeler gauges with? :)

I think we can all see where this is going. I need a gauge to check my gauge, to check my gauge and eventually end up wandering a hallway in the National Institute of Standards and Technology wondering why we are there. Finally we just say good enough or become OCD about the whole measurement process. I figure good enough at some point should suffice. :)

Ron
 
If you buy a reputable brand of gauge, they have already done the "check a gauge with a gauge with a gauge" and wandered the hallways of NIST for you. ;)
 
Check your caliper against a bullet of known diameter. A good one to use is the .30 caliber Hornady or Sierra 168 gr match bullet that can be relied on to measure .308 exactly.
 
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Agreed, I use bullets as a cross check, we are only dealing with .001 here.

Its not like a fuel injection system that goes into the .0001 area (may be more these days)
 
With a bullet .001" over barrel diameter, there is only .0005" more rifling engagement on the bullet.
 
On average a $25 to $50 0" to 6" digital caliper has an uncertainty of 0.001" so the fact that most can resolve 0.0005" really doesn't matter much. All measuring/gauging tools used in reloading or by a rifle smith have an uncertainty. The question becomes what uncertainty or accuracy can we live with. How good is good enough? Measuring a .310 gauge block using a standard digital caliper and assuming the gauge block to be the legal truth any reading between 0.309" and 0.311 would be acceptable. Would that be good enough?

Ron
 
Would depend whether measuring circular or linear. For circular, OK for most purposes. If linear, probably not for most purposes.
 
I don't know how everyone else does it... (And not sure I want to)

I have two die rings precision ground out of carbide.
For my .308, The top die gauge is .3085" anything larger or out of round DOES NOT fall through to the next ring, is set aside in the 'Oversize' bin.
The top die has a slightly rounded mouth because carbide can have an incredibly sharp edge.

There is about 2" between dies so the longest .30 cal bullets can clear the top die, and my fat fingers can remove that bullet from between dies.

The second ring is exactly .308" in diameter, anything undersized falls into the 'Undersize' bin.
This die is specifically taper ground to mostly match the ogive of low BC bullets.
This keeps the dies from dinging up the bullet when dropped 2".

This gauge sits on a stand that straddles common plastic bin boxes to make live easier.
'Swipe Left' for oversize, 'Swipe Right' for First Quality match & bench rest bullets, drop through are undersized.

Anything that passes through the first, gets stopped by the second is a pass and goes on to weight check.

I have exactly the same gauge in .223, .224 and most calibers I've loaded bench ammo for.

It's my experience that slightly oversized bullets still shoot pretty good, grossly oversized or out of round do NOT produce repeatable results.
Out of round is almost always a core shift, and it's not hard to figure out how that screws things up.

In my experience even slightly undersized doesn't produce repeatable results, you have to work up a load specifically for the grip of the rifling an undersized bullet produces.

I would NEVER rely on ANY brand of bullet for a standard!
Once you start measuring properly, with an accurate tool, you will be shocked how under/over & out of round a lot of bullet brands are.
Here is a hint, a lot of 'Match' grade bullets... Aren't.
When you buy those high dollar target bullets, keep in mind there are some 'Hunting' bullets that are equal to, or surpass the 'Match' bullets, AND, they have a second purpose, 'Hunting'.

I'm not going to badmouth any specific brand, but I will recommend Hornady ballistic tipped 'Varmint' bullets, which WILL put a 10 round group under a nickel or dime @ 100 yds. (.224) without too much load development time (and a good barrel).

I don't throw out bullets that don't make benchrest or high match grade, these are practice, range and general blasting ammo fodder.
Hunting rifles won't know the difference, but your bench shooting will show you the difference, and you don't hunt with 'Match' bullets anyway.

There is no earthy reason the die gauges need to be carbide, I used it because it was here and incredibly wear resistant, I only wanted to make the gauges ONCE.
 
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