.223 Unfired Round hard to extract

L

LouisianaJoe1945

New member
I encountered a problem at the range trying to remove a loaded round.

I found a older thread that appeared to solve the problem. I too had failed to turn the sizing die in 1/4 turn after seating the die flush to the press.

I also tried taking the de primer out and then resized loaded ammo that was causing the problem. It extracts easier. I have not fired any of this yet and my question is whether sizing the case with the bullet in it will cause any other problems?

The upper is a Rock River varmint barrel with a Wylde chamber. All of my reloads are in .223 brass.

I am 78 and I think that I am getting arthritis in my wrist and this compounds the extraction problem.
 
You would need to remove the expander/de-primer assembly from the die. And you might wind up with extra neck tension or squished bullets when it compresses the neck down if it will even fit with bullet on top.
 
I did remove the expander/de-primer assembly from the die. I then ran the loaded load through again. I was wondering if this would cause any problems when I fire it.
 
The potential problem will actually be a lessening of neck tension. The reason is that the brass case and the copper and lead bullet will have different amounts of "spring back".

Running a case with a seated bullet through the sizer die could result in the bullet being compressed and staying "more compressed" than the case neck does.

This is not guaranteed to be a problem, but it might be.

If it were me, I would pull the bullets, then resize the case then reseat the bullet.

Since you've already sized the "loaded round" it is what it is. I think it unlikely to create a safety issue, but it might create an accuracy issue, compared to regular ammo.

With the AR system, it is more difficult to extract sticky rounds by hand than with most other rifles, simply because of the lack of leverage due to the design placement of the charging handle. It's small, and relies entirely on linear force being converted to rotational force by the cam of the bolt carrier. There are other action designs that act the same way in general, but have larger, more easily gripped charging handles to make extraction easier.

Good luck with your reworked ammo. It will probably function properly, but do note how it shoots to see if there is any change from the usual.
 
Personally, any time I make a mistake I just pull all possible bullets down and redo them from scratch. To me, it’s not worth the risk. In over 30 years of handloading I’ve blown up one gun. I pulled down well over 2000 rounds of .357 mag that I’d loaded during this session just to be sure it didn’t happen again. Complacency can bite, I got lucky no one was hurt. The top strap bounced off my forehead with only a minor cut.
 
CAUTION!

In theory, you shouldn't be able to squeeze a loaded round into a sizing die without fierce resistance from narrowing the bullet. I am surprised you were able to do it at all and not get the cartridge stuck in the die. The die is designed to size the neck beyond what is needed for bullet grip, and then the expander opens it back up. This over-resizing of the neck compensates for the fact that different case brands have different neck thicknesses, and cases that have been reloaded but not re-annealed at the neck get more springy.

Note that when you have a live round in the die, you have made a gun with a chamber throat too tight to release the bullet normally. So, if the primer went off, you would have a chance for a pretty high-pressure event that would shoot a bullet through the ceiling. Even though the "barrel" is very short, with that squeeze on the bullet, it may still achieve enough velocity to be dangerous. Even if it doesn't, the burning powder can still burn and possibly blind you. If the case head blows off before the bullet shoots out, you may get kickback on the press handle instead.

Redding makes what is called a Body Die that has a neck wide enough for live ammo to go into it without damaging or squeezing the bullet. This could still expel a bullet if it went off, but without the squeeze, the pressure and velocity would be very low and unable to penetrate a normal floor. Burn and blind you, yes, but not shoot the person upstairs.
 
When you set up your SEATER die, you may have created your problem.
The die has a CRIMP function built in.
If you installed the die in the press so it contacts the shellholder, it is setup to make a heavy crimp,

But the crimp has no place to go.

Something has to give.

So the cartridge shoulder collapses. Due to the geometry of all that,the case diameter at the shoulder increases.

The chamber is tapered, so he shoulder can enter the chamber,but it will lock up as it goes deeper.

Suggestions:

Measure the case diameter at the shoulder. Compare to a factory load or look at a drawing. If you look close,you may see a bulge at the shoulder.

When you set up your seater die, put a piece of brass in your press. The die should be backed away from the shellholder a few turns.

Raise the ram to top stroke.

Now with just your fingers,screw the die down till you feel it contact the case.

The contact is the die's crimp feature contacting the case mouth.

To allow for case length variation, back the die off 1/4 turn or so.Lock it down.

I don't know about you, but I like my die settings to be repeatable. This setting will effect seating depth and cartridge overall length.

The die just needs to be off the crimp "some". 1/10th turn or 1/4 turn,it doesn't matter.
Run the ram up and see the gap to the shell holder.

I want a feeler gauge or a washer or some flat, parallel piece of steel I can use for a gauge to screw the die in to the same depth each time.

This little problem seems to be a common step in the education of many folks learning to load .223 /5,56. You are not the first or the only!

I hope that helps.
 
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