I have been thinking about getting a new rifle because it has been awhile since I have gotten a rifle. I want to get either a 223 or 22 mag or 17 hmr. I have a 17 hmr but I would like to put a scope on one and the 17 I have is more functional without a scope. So here's my question: should I get a ruger American in 223 or a Henry golden boy in 17 hmr. Because I want to put a scope on it,should i get the 24" barrel frontier model in 22 mag or get a 223 and wait for the frontier model in 17hmr seems how I would rather have that instead of 22 mag but I don't have a 22 mag...... As you can see I have a lot of different thoughts but I just want to know what the advantage of getting each one is.
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223 or rimfire?
- Thread starter Deerhunt
- Start date
"...to 200 yds..." Not with any rimfire, including a Mag or a .17. Both are expensive shooting too. A 20 grain HMR, sighted in at 50 yards, drops 11.4" at 200 with barely enough energy to make the trip worthwhile. About 72 ft-lbs.
A 40 grain .22 Mag, sighted in at 50 yards, drops 20.8" at 200 with about 100 ft-lbs. of energy left.
.223 will do 200 nicely and it's reloadable. I'd be thinking heavy barreled Savage myself.
A 40 grain .22 Mag, sighted in at 50 yards, drops 20.8" at 200 with about 100 ft-lbs. of energy left.
.223 will do 200 nicely and it's reloadable. I'd be thinking heavy barreled Savage myself.
"...to 200 yds..." Not with any rimfire, including a Mag or a .17. Both are expensive shooting too. A 20 grain HMR, sighted in at 50 yards, drops 11.4" at 200 with barely enough energy to make the trip worthwhile. About 72 ft-lbs.
A 40 grain .22 Mag, sighted in at 50 yards, drops 20.8" at 200 with about 100 ft-lbs. of energy left.
.223 will do 200 nicely and it's reloadable. I'd be thinking heavy barreled Savage myself.
Sounds like good advice
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ShootistPRS
New member
The Ruger American is a great choice in 223. It will easily cover your intended range and deal with any varmint easily.
roashooter
Moderator
For your applications....the 223....however...I would look at the CZ 527s....they will out shoot the rugers( and I own a lot of rugers)...can be had with iron sights...and the single set trigger will shrink your groups
http://cz-usa.com/product-category/rifles/micro-centerfire-rifles/
http://cz-usa.com/product-category/rifles/micro-centerfire-rifles/
shootbrownelk
New member
I'll second that Ruger American .223 suggestion. You can't beat them for the money, they're accurate too. I have two of them, a .17 HMR & a .22 LR.
I would say figure out what you want first. Quiet and casual, or serious business?
The 17HMR is a fun little round, but not a whole lot of energy. 11.4" of drop at 200 is nothing, just hold a little higher
22WMR is kind of the same story, fun to shoot and very portable, and 20" of drop is no big deal.
Now, if you want to end a critter's days with authority, neither of those will fill the bill, you need more oomph. But if you are just popping paper, any of them will do just fine, no need for the horsepower. The 223 is about the same cost to shoot, but it is a whole lot louder than either of the others.
The 17HMR is a fun little round, but not a whole lot of energy. 11.4" of drop at 200 is nothing, just hold a little higher
22WMR is kind of the same story, fun to shoot and very portable, and 20" of drop is no big deal.
Now, if you want to end a critter's days with authority, neither of those will fill the bill, you need more oomph. But if you are just popping paper, any of them will do just fine, no need for the horsepower. The 223 is about the same cost to shoot, but it is a whole lot louder than either of the others.
"...to 200 yds..." Not with any rimfire, including a Mag or a .17. Both are expensive shooting too. A 20 grain HMR, sighted in at 50 yards, drops 11.4" at 200 with barely enough energy to make the trip worthwhile.
BS, people shoot 22 rimfires, (Long rifles, not magnums) at 200-500 yards quite often. I've heard of some shooting at 600-700 yards.
https://video.search.yahoo.com/sear...M-?p=shooting+22+at+long+range&fr=tightropetb
I've gotten bored with 50-100 yards and have been shooting at 200 for quite some time with my 22's. The next step is to try 300. Yea, there is a lot of bullet drop, but once you zero the scope for 200-300 yards it is no harder to shoot at 200-300 than 50.
I use a scope with dials. I have it zeroed at 50 yards. I need 8 clicks up to be zeroed at 100 yards. It takes 1 complete turn + 8 more clicks to dial it in at 200 yards. I'm pretty sure I still have enough adjustment to get me to 300, but haven't tried yet.
I've been able to get 2" groups at 200 in calm wind. With much wind at all you'll be all over the place so it can be a bit more challenging. But that is why it is so much more fun than shooting at 50 yards. If you want have some fun then buy a 22 and start going long with it.
I have a BIL that has used his 22 for prairie dogs and made kills as far as 190 yards. So it can be an effective varmint round, not just for paper punching.
On the other hand I think very highly of the Ruger American rifles. I have 223, 308, and 6.5 Creedmoor. All 3 are tack drivers and making hits at 200 is just plain easy. If you want to start shooting at ranges over 300 yards it would be an easier to make hits with. But a 22 is cheaper to shoot and more fun. In the end you'll probably end up with both. But in my opinion a 22 is the place to start.
I was looking on CZ' s website and saw that they didn't have 6.5 creedmoore but that they had 6.5 grendel. What is the grendel like? Would it work for both deer and varmints? I know a 243 will and i have 2 of them but want something different and after looking at CZs website really like them. So...... 6.5 grendel?
brasscollector
New member
The 6.5grendel is a fine round if you're limited to an AR15 magazine length. If you're talking a bolt rifle I see no need to limit yourself to a grendel. That being said it does get you into the 6.5s and it has a usable 400yd range (for deer), possible more depending on what your aiming at. It would be, IMO, a much better choice for deer sized game than a 223 would. Cost of ammo vs 223 or 22lr might be a consideration depending on how much paper punching one was planning on doing.
"Yea, there is a lot of bullet drop, but once you zero the scope for 200-300 yards it is no harder to shoot at 200-300 than 50."
Then you add this:
"I've been able to get 2" groups at 200 in calm wind. With much wind at all you'll be all over the place so it can be a bit more challenging."
Challenging as in IMPOSSIBLE. A whiff of wind will move a 22 several inches at 200 yards.
For the OP, the .223 is about the cheapest center fire you can shoot and provides a BIG advantage if you're really interested in shooting 100-200 (or more) yards. The 17 HMR shoots tiny groups, provides improved performance on smaller varmints(vs the 22), and is also significantly affected by crosswinds. If you've been shooting a 17 with open sights only, you haven't even begun to challenge it's accuracy.
Then you add this:
"I've been able to get 2" groups at 200 in calm wind. With much wind at all you'll be all over the place so it can be a bit more challenging."
Challenging as in IMPOSSIBLE. A whiff of wind will move a 22 several inches at 200 yards.
For the OP, the .223 is about the cheapest center fire you can shoot and provides a BIG advantage if you're really interested in shooting 100-200 (or more) yards. The 17 HMR shoots tiny groups, provides improved performance on smaller varmints(vs the 22), and is also significantly affected by crosswinds. If you've been shooting a 17 with open sights only, you haven't even begun to challenge it's accuracy.
I was gonna say the Ruger American Predator in 223, but someone mentioned the same rifle in 204 Ruger. If you're only shooting varmints to 200 yards (or beyond) that would be my choice.
Had a guy here that bought 30K acres that was covered with prairie dogs. He was asking to help get rid of them.
I have a 204 in Ruger #1, and a RAP in 6.5 so we know what both bullet and rifle were about. Wife decided she wanted a 204 RAP. (Ruger American Predator) so we go wont (Less then $400) and hit the prairie.
She was easily getting hits at 400 yards and better. The 204 is devastating on prairie dogs. I've shot many of coyotes with my Ruger #1.
However if you want to move to heavier game such as deer or antelope, the 223 RAP would be a much better choice.
Unless you reload the 223 is going to be cheaper to shoot. It has a 1:7 twist so you can use bullets up to 90 gr. for long range (1000 yards or so).
Check out the you tube videos on the Ruger American Predator, you'll be impressed. For a budget rifle its hard to beat.
My 6.5 RAP shoots about as good as my wife's Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5 CM. I haven't got one in 223, but based on our 204 and 6.5 RAPs, I think it would be a shooter.
Had a guy here that bought 30K acres that was covered with prairie dogs. He was asking to help get rid of them.
I have a 204 in Ruger #1, and a RAP in 6.5 so we know what both bullet and rifle were about. Wife decided she wanted a 204 RAP. (Ruger American Predator) so we go wont (Less then $400) and hit the prairie.
She was easily getting hits at 400 yards and better. The 204 is devastating on prairie dogs. I've shot many of coyotes with my Ruger #1.
However if you want to move to heavier game such as deer or antelope, the 223 RAP would be a much better choice.
Unless you reload the 223 is going to be cheaper to shoot. It has a 1:7 twist so you can use bullets up to 90 gr. for long range (1000 yards or so).
Check out the you tube videos on the Ruger American Predator, you'll be impressed. For a budget rifle its hard to beat.
My 6.5 RAP shoots about as good as my wife's Ruger Precision Rifle in 6.5 CM. I haven't got one in 223, but based on our 204 and 6.5 RAPs, I think it would be a shooter.
Blindstitch
New member
I was going to suggest the 223 but then the 204 and 6.5 popped up and that suggests you should figure out what you really want.
Depending on location and use 22 mag can have its upside. Here in Milwaukee around the Metro and even 30 miles out there are rules that you can't use centerfire rifles to hunt there but you can use rimfire. Not for deer but a close to the city coyote hunt.
And 22mag seems to be making itself available lately. Seen at several walmarts for $15 for 50.
Depending on location and use 22 mag can have its upside. Here in Milwaukee around the Metro and even 30 miles out there are rules that you can't use centerfire rifles to hunt there but you can use rimfire. Not for deer but a close to the city coyote hunt.
And 22mag seems to be making itself available lately. Seen at several walmarts for $15 for 50.
For shooting varmints at 200 yards, the .223 rem. is probably the best option. Ammo is far more economical than any other centerfire, and there are some very accurate effective varmint loads available at reasonable prices (Fiocchi Extrema V-MAX in 40 or 50 gr V-MAX or Federal American Eagle Tipped Varmint 50 gr loads). Ammo for the .204 Ruger is far less available and more expensive. If you handload, the .204 Ruger might be a better option but also requires special cleaning rods for the .20 bore and brass is more expensive as well.
As difficult as it was to find ammo for the .22 magnum over the past several years, I wouldn't consider one. I realize there are some rifles in that chambering being offered at very attractive prices right now, probably because of that fact. Besides I prefer the .17 HMR for short range (under 200 yards) quieter varmint shooting over the .22 long rifle or .22 magnum. Flatter trajectory and those 17 gr V-MAX bullets really pop ground squirrels.
As difficult as it was to find ammo for the .22 magnum over the past several years, I wouldn't consider one. I realize there are some rifles in that chambering being offered at very attractive prices right now, probably because of that fact. Besides I prefer the .17 HMR for short range (under 200 yards) quieter varmint shooting over the .22 long rifle or .22 magnum. Flatter trajectory and those 17 gr V-MAX bullets really pop ground squirrels.
I own a nice little Marlin .22Mag that gets shot about once a year, I really need to just sell it. The .223 is cheaper to shoot (factory is about the same, reloads cheaper) and is much more versatile.
Side Note: On a whim, I bought 15K .22Mag pulls for like $18 many years ago. Loaded with a small charge of AA1680, those 40 grainers leave my 16" AR at about 2400 fps.
Side Note: On a whim, I bought 15K .22Mag pulls for like $18 many years ago. Loaded with a small charge of AA1680, those 40 grainers leave my 16" AR at about 2400 fps.
Get a .223
If you already have a .17, then get a .223. They are so much fun to shoot, and all day long if you have the ammo. You have many choices for a rifle in .223, too. I bought the Rem ADL scope package last year in .223 (just a tad over 400 bucks), and just love the thing.
As I do reload, I found a good load using a 60 grain bullet, so I can even use it for deer hunting here in Wyoming. The .223 is such a fine, versatile, fun round to shoot, and I don't think you'd go wrong with the Ruger Am. in .223 if that's what your thinking about. I have a Ruger Am. in .22lr that wears a 4x rimfire Nikon scope, and it's a real peach of a rifle. The Ruger American line has earned a very fine reputation thus far; you can certainly buy one with complete confidence (IMO).
If you already have a .17, then get a .223. They are so much fun to shoot, and all day long if you have the ammo. You have many choices for a rifle in .223, too. I bought the Rem ADL scope package last year in .223 (just a tad over 400 bucks), and just love the thing.
As I do reload, I found a good load using a 60 grain bullet, so I can even use it for deer hunting here in Wyoming. The .223 is such a fine, versatile, fun round to shoot, and I don't think you'd go wrong with the Ruger Am. in .223 if that's what your thinking about. I have a Ruger Am. in .22lr that wears a 4x rimfire Nikon scope, and it's a real peach of a rifle. The Ruger American line has earned a very fine reputation thus far; you can certainly buy one with complete confidence (IMO).