.223 or .308?

H

Horny Toad

New member
I'm looking to purchase my first "larger caliber" rifle, and I need a little help. I'm a handgun guy, first and foremost, and I don't hunt. I own one rifle - a Remington 511 ScoreMaster that I got from my grandfather. I enjoy shooting it at my local indoor range, but I'd like to get something in a larger caliber. From the threads I've read here and just poking around the 'net, I'm pretty sure I want a Remington 700, just not sure which one. The LTR or the VS sure look sweet, but I'm just not sure. Anyway, my main question is this: In general, which round is better for target shooting, .223 or .308? I can shoot at Fort Dix (NJ) which I believe offers ranges out to 500 or 600 yards. Now, I've never fired a gun of any kind that far, but I'd sure like to try! :) So, for purely target, no hunting, just punching paper, what would you recommend? .308 isn't very expensive, but .223 is cheaper, so I may shoot more. I assume .308 has a lot more recoil, so I may do better with .223, but then I've read since .223 ammo uses such light bullets, wind is more of a factor.
If anyone could offer advice or maybe steer me in the right direction so I can do more research, I'd really appreciate it!


Horny Toad
 
Toad,

You've already identified the key tradeoffs. If you plan to shoot regularly out beyond 300 yards, the .308 is the way to go. 168gr match ammo will hold you accurately out to 800 yards, and 175gr match will get you to 1000. I shoot both .223 and .308, but consider the .223 limited beyond 300 yards.

As far as rifles are concerned, I'd look for a 700 VS or VSSF. They come in HS Precision stocks. Can't comment on the LTR as I've never shot one, but my preference would be for a longer barrel for shooting 400 yards plus. If you like the "black" rifle, look for a PSS.

Also, don't skimp on optics. You'll need good glass to be precise at long ranges, and you should also consider a sloped (20 MOA or better) scope base to retain maximal elevation adjustment at extreme ranges. Badger Arms makes a great base.

I'm sure you'll get a lot of good info here. Keep us posted on what you decide.
 
Since Blackhills makes some excellent 80 grain ammo in 5.56, there is no tradeoff in the range department. The light recoil helps but the cheaper ammo/components makes for more practice.

The .223 is definitely cheaper and easier to shoot well. Get yourself a service rifle (CMP legal) with a 1:8 barrel and have fun. If you go quality, a MOA rifle is the norm. I've shot 2/3 MOA at 300 and 1 MOA all the way to 600. Most CMP prepped AR's will clean the x-ring if you do your part.
 
Mr Toad;

Since you have not fired a high power rifle, I would sugest that you first visit the range and see what everyone is using and even see if someone will let you shoot their rifle. I would not feel out of place using a AR .223 out to 600 yards, it will do the job. there is quite a difference between the .308 and the .223. If you are going to use a scope you may want to go to a bolt action rifle. At any rate, talk to the guys at you range.

pwiz

PS

Does Fort Dix allow open shooting?? or is it only open for matches?? You best check and be sure
 
pwiz,

Yes, Fort Dix is open to "open" shooting Wednesday, Saturday and Sunday. I guess I could just show up there and ask to shoot strangers' rifles, but that doesn't seem realistic to me. Also, I never considered a semi-auto. I'm definitely leaning towards a Remington 700 of some sort.


Thanks


Horny Toad
 
Ditto hkg3. 308 is the way to go. Recoil depends on your perspective. You probably should fire a .308 first, and see how well you do, and how the recoil affects you after going through a few boxes. As far as being cheap to shoot, I just bought a case of 1,000 rds. of Argentine .308 for $129.00. That's pretty cheap. But, if you prefer a round with recoil that is virtually non-existent, then .223 is your choice.
 
In a semi-auto, neither .308/7.62NATO recoil or .223/5.56NATO recoil are a big deal. You don't need to invest in recoil pads or any of that other "tender-shoulder" stuff. Neither are a .338 Lapua Mag. That being said, I understand why no one was just itching to go full-auto with their M14s... that's where the real recoil difference plays into things.

In a bolt-action... most of the rifles you're looking at will be short action so will tend to be available in .308 or in .223. Really a toss-up here. If you ever plan to hunt larger game (deer-sized+), go for the .308. (Yes, you can take deer cleanly with .223. It's just easier with .308, IME)

If you're really just wanting to put holes into paper, .223 is probably your cheapest bet in the long run. Yes, .308 is cheap, but not as cheap as .223, and the better quality semi-auto .223 rifles (AR15s) tend to run cheaper than the better quality semi-auto .308s (M1As, decent FAL copies, decent HK91 copies, AR10s). For bolt-actions, the cost difference is more based in ammo than the rifle.

I prefer .308. I love my Armalites. I love my FAL and M1A more.
 
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