223 guidance

G

gunsforamericans

Inactive
Im just getting into reloading and have started with 223. Im using nosler 55gr spitzer bullets and used the load data on the can of hodgon h335, which is for a 55gr spr SP, (i was under the impression that this was for all 55gr bullets). It called for 25.3 grains and an OAL of 2.20, however my OAL was 2.26 because the pamphlet that came with my die said so. They seem to shoot fine, so i loaded some more to 2.2 OAL because they fit in an ar mag better. After loading the second batch i found the nosler load data which called for 23-25gr and OAL of 2.26, So now im worried that the second batch will be over pressure. Is there an easy way to calculate chamber pressure? and is there a low velocity load i could do for shooting steel at closer ranges?
 
If you read the fine print on the bottle, it says those are MAX charges and to reduce by 10% to start. I doubt you have a dangerous load, but keep that in mind. You need to get a reloading manual such as Lyman 50th edition.

Due to ricochets, I wouldn't advise shooting steel with FMJ closer than 75 yards. Our range has a minimum distance of 100 yards.

Rifle cases need a certain minimum pressure to seal against gasses. Just load to minimum for that powder/bullet combo and be done with it.
 
chris in va said:
Due to ricochets, I wouldn't advise shooting steel with FMJ closer than 75 yards. Our range has a minimum distance of 100 yards.
Click to expand...

I second that. I shot a steel plate at 25 yards with a 55 FMJ. I won't go into the details but let's just say "Life Lesson Learned" I will never ever make that mistake again. Not only did it hurt like heck but re affirmed the need for safety glasses while shooting. Took a hard hit right at the eyebrow.
 
Your load has a number of questions attached to it... what kind of brass are you using? What kind of primer? How many of those did you load? What are you shooting them out of?

There is software available that will calculate pressure and such for you... it's called QuickLoad.

Generally speaking, I find 3 sources of data before I start working up any new load... chris is correct, I would get a good manual, and you can also source some data right online, Hodgdon comes to mind immediately, and you are using H335, so you will find good data for that there.

Edit: AH! You mentioned an AR mag length... the Hornady manual also includes some very good load data specific to service rifles... like the AR.
 
Im using some primed lake city brass I picked up a couple yrs ago, I loaded about 250 rds so far, and ive been shooting them out of an AR-15 to start with, I thought the lead length was kind of extra safety if the load was to hot, I plan on using them in a bolt gun also. As far as steel goes I like to do 3 gun and combative style training and I am more worried about damaging the targets then ricochets, the targets will be mounted at angles or free moving and I dont plan on being so close that its unsafe, however I do realize strange things can happen with bullets on steel.
 
Just so you are aware, military brass (Lake City) is thicker... so it has less internal case capacity. You will reach higher pressure with the same amount of powder vs a commercial case.
 
I have to ask...
Does your gun say 223 Rem, or 5.56? Just because it's an MSR doesn't mean it is automaticly a 5.56.
Load data for 223 is on the conservative side pressure wise.

I'm reloading 223 Rem in a bolt gun to 5.56 pressures. Really helps get em out there at 600 yards.
 
Charlie 98,

That thicker brass, lower capacity thing only ever applied with 7.62 NATO. Commercial 30-06 is both above and below Lake City case capacity, and in 5.56 NATO, Lake City actually has slightly more capacity than most commercial brass. Scroll 1/3 of the way down this page to see the measured case water capacities of a good number of headstamps including Lake City.


Gunsforamericans,

Tested loads listed by Hodgdon or anyone else only tells you what their load with their components did in their test gun. Think of it as an approximation. When you change the bullet, I recommend you start with the bullet maker's seating depth rather than the depth for some other bullet. The pressure will vary with how much your bullet's seating depth and jump from the case to the lands of the rifling differ from the test bullets. Any difference in the materials can affect it as well. This is why the general rule to reduce loads 10% and to work up while watching for pressure signs exists. It's supposed to be enough to compensate for all the variables, but it doesn't always work out perfectly. So I recommend you ask the bullet manufacturer what his maximum load is and take the other load data you got and use ten percent less than the smaller of the various maximums you find as your starting point. In this case, Nosler used 2.260" COL and 25.0 grains maximum for their Spitzer bullet, and 22.5 grains would be your starting load.
 
The rifle Im currently using to test the loads is 5.56, the bolt gun im going to go to is a 223. when starting with my 10% reduced load and working up how do I know what the sweet spot to stop at is? Im assuming its the best accuracy before seeing pressure signs? Is the max load generally about the best for just the max? and how big of a sample size of each load should I try before I move to the next?
 
gunsforamericans said:
The rifle Im currently using to test the loads is 5.56, the bolt gun im going to go to is a 223. when starting with my 10% reduced load and working up how do I know what the sweet spot to stop at is? Im assuming its the best accuracy before seeing pressure signs? Is the max load generally about the best for just the max? and how big of a sample size of each load should I try before I move to the next?
Click to expand...

Some people sometimes use velocity nodes. These are nodes in a load test that the velocity stays relatively the same over a spread different powder charges. A chronograph is usually used to record the velocities. Before I owned a chronograph, I used group sizes at 100 yards. Turns out my data was fairly similar using either method. For plinking just about anything will work. I suggest you stay away from max loads. Very little is gained at max unless you are shooting longer 400 or 500 yards. The advantage of velocity nodes is that less accurate powder loads do not affect accuracy. When I couldn't afford a chronograph I used groups. Keep in mind that an AR with standard ammo and iron sights depending on your skills could be 2" to 3". A bolt gun may be more accurate. Loading for 5.56 and 223 is another reason for staying below max. 5.56 can be loaded to higher pressures than 223.
 
Last edited:
You need to start at the min load and work up. 25.3 gr is within range, but is it safe in your rifle? You need to read the case heads....

OAL is a condition of the data. You need to set oal to mag or chamber length and work up.....did you work up from 23.0 gr?
 
Charlie 98,

That thicker brass, lower capacity thing only ever applied with 7.62 NATO. Commercial 30-06 is both above and below Lake City case capacity, and in 5.56 NATO, Lake City actually has slightly more capacity than most commercial brass. Scroll 1/3 of the way down this page to see the measured case water capacities of a good number of headstamps including Lake City.
Click to expand...

The majority of my experience with LC and other military brass is with 7.62mm... I just naturally extended that to 5.56mm... thanks for clearing that up. It IS an issue in the 7.62, where some people have gotten into trouble switching a developed handload from commercial to military brass in something like the M1a.

I've found, particularly with stick (IMR) powders, that I have had difficulty fitting even starting loads into my LC 5.56mm cases... I just naturally assumed it was case volume.
 
"...plan on using them in a bolt gun also..." You'll have to work up the load for each rifle.
The 25.3 of H335 is indeed the Max load. The Start load is 23.0. Hodgdon's site shows 2.200" is the OAL length they used. SAAMI spec is 2.125" to 2.260" from the point of the bullet to the flat of the case head.
Best you go buy a manual.
"...223 Rem or 5.56..." Reloading data is the same.
 
Better check your manual again, T.O.
Most of the 5.56 is for heavier bullets.
Hard finding load data for heavy bullets in 223.
5.56 pressure 60k psi, 223 is around 53k psi if i recall right.
 
Right around 24 gn of H335 has Ben a sweet spot for me. While I admit I haven't looked for it, but have never noted 5.56 loading data. My AR is chambered. .223 Rem with 1:9 twist, it loves moderate load 55 gn bullets, with several different brands and powders.
Edit. I just had to go look and did indeed find some 5.56 data, never thught about it I guess, didnt need to.
 
Yeah, i never thought about it before i picked up my wifes Savage 110 FP in 223.
24" heavy barrel, 1:9 twist.
Loves 69gr MK, TMK.

Planning on a 600 yard match with it this spring. Need more LC cases though.
 
Yeah, i never thought about it before i picked up my wifes Savage 110 FP in 223.
24" heavy barrel, 1:9 twist.
Loves 69gr MK, TMK.

Planning on a 600 yard match with it this spring. Need more LC cases though.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised that slow of twist would stabilize 69grns out to 600Yds...
 
Should be just fine. With 24" of barrel on the Savage he even has a little extra velocity potential to play with. A 20" 1-8" twist will stabilize an 80gr SMK perfectly fine; a 1-9" should be good even up to the 75gr Hornady HPBT, but maybe not the long Amax bullet.

The bigger challenge with shooting 69gr bullets at 600 yards is the wind drift. They'll shoot pretty well in calm conditions but get blown around fairly badly when the breeze kicks up. Though the Sierra TMK may be an improvement over the original MK.

As to the OP, you need to read some more on procedure and possibly pick up some more manuals. How much reloading have you done before now? You started at a max load because that's what was on the bottle. The fine print does say reduce 10% though. ;-)

And you should be able to come up with a usable load for both the AR and bolt gun. It's not a rule that every gun has to have a load worked up for it. I have a load with 69gr Nosler HPBT bullets and Hodgdon Varget that has been fired in literally 5 different match barrels, 1 16" AR carbine, plus 2 bolt action rifles and been perfectly safe and accurate in all.

Oh, and for H335, I'd try 24.5gr under almost any 55gr bullet loaded to AR magazine length. AR magazine length is pretty much right at 2.26" OAL for a loaded round. Except some Hornady bullets have shapes that require them to be seated deeper though.

Plus as stated, Lake City 5.56 brass can pretty much be treated like commercial .223 brass. I've actually had more issues with some commercial brands having lower case capacity than military brass.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
 
so far in my reloading career ive loaded less then 300 rds. I went with the data on the powder can, but used a different bullet, then I changed the O.A.L. and after finding data for the actual bullet I was using became worried about over pressure. I chose a 5.56 chamber to start with because I thought the longer lead length would handle an over pressure situation better then my 223 in case i had made a mistake. My overall goal with my first 500 rds or so was to make a generic one size fits all cartridge, (close to factory) that I could shoot in anything. Everyone has been really helpful and I think my next step is to get some manuals and not stray from load data until I gain more experience.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top