.223 for deer?

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This may have been mentioned in past posts so I'll appologize now for bringing is up again, but deer season is just around the corner and I'd like some input...

Let me give some background.... I've hunted Moose, Deer and Bear in NH most of my life. Took a lot of deer with the bow, .410, 12g and my .35 rem... all with very satisfying results. I now lilve in Western NC where the deer aren't *quite* as big as my old counterparts, though I am convinced they can read "No hunting" signs :confused:

I recently (this spring) purchased a bushmaster Xm15 A3 and really like it. I've even managed to get it to shoot 1-1.5" groups at 100y offhand (pretty darn good for a part-time shooter). 100y is about as far as I'd ever like to shoot... I prefer closer when I can get there. I'm mostly a bow hunter afterall :o

Now onto the real meat(no pun intended).... the terrain where I hunt is UP... both ways and T-H-I-C-K as all get-out. Great for a 12g and .35rem. I've obviously blooded all of my larger weapons and am curious as how the Bushmaster will perform on deer here. No, it doesnt have any fancy high-dollar mods except a RIS and EOTech. It's an out-of-the-box .223 M4gery. It's a bit heavier than I'm normally used to but that just makes me live healthier so its not an issue :D. it sure makes the lever gun seem lighter, hehe.

Any experience with deer on this type of weapon? Also, what over-counter ammo would work best? I've been shooting crappy bulk ammo and managed to lay my hands on some surplus NATO 5.56, but its all been FMJ stuff... clearly not good game-getters.
 
I think the going wisdom on it is that it's doable but not necessarily ideal. I've never tried so I can't directly comment, but there have been a lot of threads asking this before. You're gonna get a lot of people saying don't do it and some others saying they've done it. You'll get people saying go for headshots, you'll get people saying go for heartshots. Someone will come along in a minute and say "use the search function".





By the way, if you use the search function you'll find some other threads on this. :)

see, told ya so.
 
I shot my first deer with a Mini-14 and a 55 gr SP and wasn't impressed. Any of your other rifles will do a better job.

If you do decide to use it, go as heavy as your rifle will stabilize and pick your shots.
 
I dont think .223 is legal for deer in NC, but i may be wrong. but that said, I've seen several taken with .223 in the past, and it seemed to work well.
 
.223 or 5.56 will kill a man, I've seen plenty of that across the pond. Multiple shots of course, unless you get lucky and hit a vital organ. As for deer, I've seen it used back in the 70's and was not impressed. Most left blood trails with the deer never to be found. Did they live? I doubt it, the wild dogs probably ate them causing the deer an agonizing death. The .223 or 5.56 would not be my choice unless there was nothing else available. One thing many tend to forget, and I learned this in training before shipping over to Vietnam. The M-16, or AR as we call it today, was not intended to kill your enemy. It was to disable him, causing others to assist him, thus, taking all of them out of the firefight and reduceing the enemy strength against you. I know there was talk about the round tumbleing end over end and all that good stuff, but the truth is, unless you had a head or heart shot, it took multiple shots to stop a man.
 
I posted this on another forum before but here are my thoughts:

I am not a fan of .22 caliber centerfire rifles for deer hunting. If it were the only option I had then yeah I would use it with the heaviest Barnes TSX it would shoot accurately. Of course the .223 has enough energy to burst the vitals and make a killing shot; however, the problem with most .22 caliber centerfire bullets is they are fragile and don't exit or when they do exit they leave sparse to no blood trail. Sure there are partitions, TSX, etc for the .223 now but I am still far from impressed with the exit holes on those either. When I was younger I watched a farmer slaughter hogs with a .22 caliber revolver. It killed them dead as a doornail but the shot was at point blank range and certain of the placement.

The areas I hunt are often extremely thick with a lot of undergrowth and some areas are very swampy. Even with a perfect heart lung shot, a deer can cover a lot of ground dead on their feet. For that reason I'm a lot more comfortable using something stronger with heavier bullets such as the 6.5x55, 7x57, .308, etc that will break shoulders, exit, and dump them on their rear ASAP.

I suppose the worst possible endorsement for the .223 that I know of comes from a couple of guys that run tracking dogs. They say they love the .223 because it keeps their dogs in business.

You have a .35 Remington. That's a FAR better choice for the terrain you are hunting. Leave the .223 at home IMO.
 
It can be done, but it wouldn't be my first or second choice. It also depends on the average deer size where you live. I would be more inclined in the pine forests of NWFL with the small deer we have vs the corn fed deer in MI or Indiana.
 
Back in the early 1990s Finn Aagard wrote an article on hunting small Texas white tails with an AR.

Bullet choice is CRITICAL. You have to pick a bullet that is specifically for heavier game. Most .223 bullets are more suitable for varmints or other very light critters.

Even with all the caveats Finn included in his article there was a lot of negative feedback.
 
Of course it can be done, but I wouldn't use it here in Maine. Our bucks get very big body wise. Last year I shot one that was 213 lbs field dress and My father shot one that went 260 lbs field dressed so it was pushing close to 300lbs live weight. It had about an inch to 1 1/2 inches of fat all over his body no kidding. I wouldn't trust a light bullet to penetrate that. I female Hunter in the area shot a 205 lbs field dress buck with a .223 last year. According to her story, She didn't say what gr. bullet she was using, Her first shot was about 50-60 yards broad side, it ran 20 yards stopped and she shot it again it walked off 15 more yards and she shot it again then it walked off out of sight. She went back and got her boyfriend they tracked it another 30 yards from where she made the last shot and there it was. I heard that the first round hit a rib and blew up with no penetration the other 2 made it to the lungs. She was lucky she was able to take the other two shots because she would of had a beautiful buck get away wounded just for the coyotes to finish off later. That's not fare to the buck. She needs to step it up to at least a .243. Of course this is one of those discussions that will keep going on and on, but I for one will not use a .223 on deer in Maine. Oh and by the way those who say go for a head shot usually have someone holding a spot light for them lol. If your bullet doesn't hit right were you want it to you may have mangled deer walking around suffer a slow death. Go for the vital IE. heart lung, and I still think I would Want a heavier bigger bullet for a neck shot too, but that just me.
 
"...Bullet choice is CRITICAL..." Exactly. A 55 Grain SP is for varmints, not deer sized game. So are the bullets in most factory ammo.
"...out-of-the-box .223 M4gery..." The rifling twist will have a lot to do with your bullet choice. There are bullets made that are suitable for deer, but they're usually heavy. Even they will be easily deflected by twigs and thick bush.
"...there's no restriction..." You do have some county laws to consider too.
http://www.ncwildlife.org/pg02_Regs/2007_08_Local_Laws.pdf
 
castnblast took a nice sized one last year with a .22-250 and a fairly tough constructed bullet. It worked well for him - a neck shot - but I would agree with most of the above posters that the .223 rem is marginal for deer - even with a 62 gr powerpoint or other heavy for caliber tough bullet.

Personally my minimum is the .243 win with 95 gr accutips. It works well on broadside shots at normal ranges.
 
I would avoid shooting deer with a 223, although I had a friend who shot his deer with a 222 every year and never lost one. For shooting deer with a 223, I would recommend using a 60 gr Nosler Partition. Loaded ammo is available from Black Hills and Ultramax, possibly others. I am positive the Nosler Partition is up to the task. I would never try this with any other 22 cal bullet I can think of.
 
I think that did it

I'll defer to the greater wisdom of better shooters who know (most likely) more about the capabilities of a .223 than I do..... I'll stick with my .35 :)

As for the laws concerning .223, etc in NC... the only rifle restriction is NO rimfire and max 5 round magazine in a semi-auto (the only reason I have a 5rd mag from Bushmaster). We do have some discombobilated laws on handgun hunting but thats for another forum.

Also.... oops, didnt go far enough into the forums to get the right area... Sorry Art. Hey, at least I didnt put it in the handgun or classifieds area :)

Thank you all for the input!
 
Finn Aagaard's article..

concluded that over-the-counter Winchester 64gr Power-point was specifically
developed for medium game.
And that due to the low recoil and ability to pleceshots was entirely adequate.
He himself did prefer to use larger caliber.
This is a personal decision for use.
 
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