.223 Expander Ball

B

Bucksnort1

New member
Reloaders,

The other day, I was re-sizing .223 cases and bent the pin on my sizing die. While changing the pin, I forgot to reinstall the expander ball (I think that's what it is called). When I sized a couple of cases without the ball, the cases cycled easily. I then realized the ball was missing so I reinstalled it. Out of curiosity, I made a comparison, without measuring with a micrometer, of a resized case with the ball and one without by simply placing a bullet on the case mouth. They looked the same so I seated a bullet (without powder or primer in the case). Seating tension seems normal. I know the function of the ball. Is this an ok thing to do - not use the expander ball?

Also, when using the expander ball, how 'bout suggestions to make the expander ball come out of the case easier. Does it matter which way the ball is placed on the decapper. It looks symmetrical to me.

Remember, a sucking chest wound is nature's way of telling you to slow down.
 
I hate expander balls. They yank and jerk, annoying and they can distort the case you just spent all that prep and time setting up to re-size. .

I have moved to using a Lyman M die (curretn re-loads in rifle are all 30 caliber of one sort or another) M Die was intended for cast bullets and putting a flare on the case, but if you do it right you can size the neck and keep the flare part out of it.

I have micrometer measurement for my cartridges, just spin it to 06, 7.5 or 308 depth.

Remember, a sucking chest wound is nature's way of telling you to slow down.
Click to expand...

I thought that was natures way of letting you know you got in the way of a bullet and should be getting the ambulance on the way?
 
Bucksnort, you got lucky with the die maker.
A crap load of die makers WAY over compress the neck, then drag the expander back through it to size the neck back out.

While virtually everyone thinks the expander is to do just that, expand the neck, it's actually a happy coincidence.
Back in the days when people shot a lot of military surplus, and ammo/chambers weren't nearly as consistent as they are now (thank you CNC!) Brass got stretched a lot more.

Swollen, stretched brass gets thinner as it's stretched, the excess brass must go somewhere...
And the die forces it 'Up'.
This is the reason for so many length trimming devices. Die pushed excess brass up, expander ball dragged it past the top shoulder bend up to the neck and it was trimmed off.

Brass has come a LONG way! If you don't believe it, just resize some 40s or 50s vintage brass, it will drive you crazy and you will use every one of your forming/trimming tools!
(Then it cracks)
CNC equipment has virtually killed of the Monday morning hangover chamber & the Friday wanna go drink chamber. That helps a bunch too!

With a more consistent brass to start with the die makers are SLOWLY coming around to making dies for 'High' brass, rather than everything since the beginning of time for that caliber.
Dies were (and sometimes still are) made to resize EVERYTHING ever made for a specific caliber, zinc, tin, copper, even steel cases. Every bad idea any ammo maker ever dreamed up, thick wall, thin wall, you name it, they were trying to size it.

I OFTEN recommend doing just what you did, take the decapping/expander rod out a size a few brass, check how much the neck is undersized... And hone that die neck out if it's crushing grossly undersized.
I take a LOT of crap for this recommendation, but if you can get a common sizing die to make brass for YOUR specific rifle chamber, then why buy expensive custom dies with a bunch of inserts?
 
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how 'bout suggestions to make the expander ball come out of the case easier.
Click to expand...

Lube the inside of the neck with a nylon brush. Cleans and lubes at the same time.

Some solution alternatives:
  • Redding FL sizing Bushing die.
  • Have die neck honed out to around .246" to .244"
  • Neck turn brass to fit the FL dies neck.
If no expander is used, the bullet becomes the expander. Not recomended for accuracy.
 
243winxb,

I hope you don't mind I edited your post to make it explicit that you were suggesting alternatives not a series of steps that all needed to be done.


Bucksnort1,

I'll add to 243winxb's set of alternatives that the Lee Collet Die combined with a Redding Body die may be used. The Collet Dir sizes the neck to a mandrel so you escape any degree of over-resizing at all. This works the brass least. The bushing dies are my second choice in this regard, as Glen Zediker and others have observed that even with bushings, if your chamber lets the neck expand too much, you need to size the neck in two steps to get best concentricity. But either way avoids sizing the neck too far.

If you use the Lee die you need to resize the case body separately unless you are going to load singly in a bolt or single-shot rifle, and that is what the Redding Body Die does. It doesn't touch the neck. It's two steps but it works well.

If you are going to stick with a conventional die, consider that they are meant to be able to resize the thinnest walled neck any manufacturer might make that is still compliant with the SAAMI standard. The thinnest 223 Remington neck wall is 0.004" thinner than the thickest neck wall the standard allows, so a thick-walled neck is going to be squeezed down 0.008" smaller in diameter than it actually needs to be, and the expander is supposed to correct that. It's a lot of over-working. The SAAMI standard neck wall thickness range is 0.0105" to 0.0145". Most brass made these days is in the 0.012"-0.014" range, but you would have to measure yours to pick correct size bushings, whose diameters have to be chosen to go with the neck wall thickness. The Lee Collet Die isn't affected by neck wall thickness, which is one of its advantages.

If, however, you decide to stick with the die you have, I recommend you get a carbide expander button to replace the steel expander. These were originally invented to make inside neck lubrication unnecessary because the contact the case only over a short length and slip well enough to make it unnecessary. But if you use a dry inside neck lube like motor mica or graphite together with a carbide expander, the drag on the neck is reduced enough to significantly reduce how much the expander pulls the neck off-axis.
 
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