.223 cartridge family

B

Boogershooter

New member
Just wondering if any of you think the .223 case will ever be used as a parent case enough to be considered a cartridge family? With all the hype these days about sub sonics and short actions and as always just normal wildcatting. I know the .277 badger and several more are being commercially loaded now so do you think it's possible or would you say it is already?
 
.223 Remington is, itself, a child.

The real "family" - the term does already get used - is that of .222 Remington.

Descendants of .222 Remington include:
.221 Fireball
.223 Remington
.222 Remington Magnum
.17 Remington
.17 Fireball
.204 Ruger
.300 Blackout
I'm sure I missed a few.
...And an endless array of wildcats, such as 6x45mm, .25-45 Sharps, .20 Practical, etc.
 
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FM thanks for the lesson there. It was late last night when that popped into my head. I guess if my memory would have been working I wouldn't have asked that question. I feel like a real dummy.
 
And it is closely linked with the various 9mm case head children due to the near-identical geometry (so 380 up through 38 Super & 22TCM)

22TCM is supposedly 223 based, and I think there's a hot-rod 30-cal 'Tokarev Magnum" of some sort based on the same, also.

"You do mean the .277 Wolverine right?"
Nah, .277 Mustelidae :D

TCB
*going to go trademark the "276 Kappa" now --the most terrifying of dangerous game :D (yet somehow also the cutest? Man, is Japan weird :confused:)
 
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Yes I did mean wolverine. Sorry I took my squirrel dog out with my Lil chiappa badger. Between deer hunting, squirrel hunting, and coon trapping, my mind and memory are getting crossed up alot.
 
If you had a straightwall 223 what would it be? 8mm?
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Pretty close to 9mm as nearly as I can tell.

You know, I'll bet it would be possible to exceed 2000fps in an AR based rifle with a 180gr 9mm bullet using a .223 case cut off at the neck and necked up to full diameter. Wouldn't that be a weird duck... Something like a high-pressure version of the .351 Winchester.
 
I wonder if that is something Quickload could simulate. I (for sure!) don't know if 2000 fps with a 180gr is do-able. What occurs to me is that .30 Carbine, running 45k psi gets close -- but with a significantly lighter bullet. Maybe if you ran up to 60 or 65k psi you could chuck a 180 to high speeds, but it seems like it might not be easy.
 
If you had a straightwall 223 what would it be? 8mm?
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If you retain enough body taper for half-decent feeding and extraction, the most reasonable, commonly available maximum bullet diameter comes in at .338".

Which gives you....
.338 Whisper #2 (though the cartridge was developed with .221 Fireball brass, it's just as easy to make with .223 Remington).


FM thanks for the lesson there. It was late last night when that popped into my head. I guess if my memory would have been working I wouldn't have asked that question. I feel like a real dummy.
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Don't be so hard on yourself.
Everybody has a brain fart now and then. And... today, .222 Remington is not a well-known cartridge. Even the average member on this forum probably hasn't heard much of it, if anything. (And the average [non-member] gun owner probably just thinks ".222 Remington" is a mis-spoken reference to .223 Remington.)
 
FM I have a 222 it's just that I use Wikipedia as a quick reference for h2o capacity of different cartridges and they list 223 as the parent case of many including the most popular 300blkout. I've laughed at it several times but it's funny as we get older and raised more kids and experienced many happy hours our memory isn't as sharp as it used to be. I can remember at deer camp the elders calling on me to spit out the ballistics of their favorite rifles. Then I couldn't even shoulder most of the rifles they carried but I knew the numbers better than they did. Truth be told that's one of the reasons I love this forum. All those elders that used to be at deer camp are gone now but here I can still see some of the same arguments.
 
The case is pretty thick there. Turning could allow for a better fit?
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Not really.

Reaming would be a better option, but I don't think either option is worth it. You'll end up with case walls that are only 0.010" thick (if that). Case walls that thin can be used, but proper neck tension, in my opinion, is achieved with 0.013-0.016" (or more).

And, in order to cram that .35 caliber bullet into the case, you do have to go true straight-wall with the cartridge. No taper, whatsoever. And that may make extraction difficult.

So, you end up with 0.010" worth of case mouth upon which to headspace the cartridge, making case length critical. You may have feeding and extraction issues. You won't be able to crimp much, if at all. And, when it's all said and done, what you will have is simply a rimless .357 Maximum.
 
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