.223 Carbine - pick, or runt of the litter?

B

ballistic gelatin

New member
This idea was sparked by a post in another forum.
It suprises me that so many people admire the .223 as
a man stopper. However, it is not viewed as adequate for
medium sized game in hunting. As far as I can tell, the
medium sized whitetail and the medium sized gobblin have
about the same weight and bone mass. When a whitetail is
shot in the vital area it runs on the average of 150 yards,
right? When I fire my weapon to neutralize a threat to life and limb, I would really rather that threat not proceed for
another 150 yards. I would imagine that the .308 in AR-15
style weapon would be ballistically more effective.
Gee, then I start to think about the MP5. Why would I want
to try and take out a group of BG's with a 9mm. If they're
wearing body armor, my MP5 is pretty usless, unless I'm
fortunate enough to score all head shots. Colt M-16
Commando (short barrel) in .223 would be admirable,
if using 3 shot bursts.
I guess that's why they developed that new 5.57 round?

Anybody know where I can get some flashbangs?
How about some more ideas on defeating thermal imaging?
 
Deer or goblins....

I've seen this comparison before, and don't think it is a good way to compare. The size may be the same, but deer don't know that they have been shot....or even what being shot is or means, no sense of their own mortality. Goblins, OTOH, are generally aware and able to react to the fear that they will die, be stopped, or caught. When they do, it may be by fleeing or attacking the person shooting them. The addition of alcohol and narcotics, which seem to be present in nearly every bad guy shot, may affect their response, as will their personality and determination. A deer may get a burst of deer adrenaline or whatever it is called, but that doesn't equate with the factors fueling bad guys.
 
If I have to shoot a fella, I'm not particularly concerned about "clean kill" and "suffering". I have respect for deer; none for the Goblin who threatens my life or somebody else's life.

Besides, people generally are more easily incapacitated than are deer. Bust a deer's leg and he'll run a mile or six. Bust a fella's leg or arm with any centerfire rifle bullet and he'll try for a new db-level record for loud screaming.

FWIW, I have read that homo sap, gorillas and chimps die almost instantly from a heart shot. Other animals seem to operate for a much longer time, on adrenalin...

As usual,

Art
 
How about a SKS! I have two,and they shoot great!!!!Reason 1 is there still cheap! Ammo is REAL CHEAP! And where can you get a 30cal, Blaster that holds 10rds, for under 200.00 bucks? They still are the DEAL of century, I think so.
 
Heart Shot???SKS!!!

One of my instructors tells me that when a human
heart receives a ballistic wound, there are approx.
12 seconds remaining in which a fire can be returned.
I also read somewhere that there are three ways to
stop someone.
(1) Hydraullics
(2) Electrically
(3) Mechanically
I think electrically works the fastest, so I'll continue
my training with small head shaped targets.
I just hope that should I ever have to call on my
training, that it will be sufficient.

As far as SKS goes.
It seems very reliable, very effective, but very long.
I would love to have one with an 11.5" barrel,
and adjustable stock of course.
That would be a fantastic defense weapon.
Ammo is the best deal I have ever seen when
comparing firepower to greenbacks.
 
Flash!! Deer have a different physiology than do humans. Nevertheless, many large deer are harvested (that means killed) by well-placed .223 shots, every year.
 
don't say that a 5.56mm or .223 will not stop a Deer, i have use my Colt Match Target HBAR in .223 to stop 200lb whitetails with one round. i'd say if it can stop a 200lb Deer it can stop a Man any Day.
 
After all that has been written about the .223 round, it's hard to imagine that there are still lots of people that think it's not sufficient to stop someone effectively. While it probably won't have the same speed as a .50BMG to the chest, I really doubt someone is going to go very far with a couple of .223's in his chest!
 
Actually, the 5.56mm is ideal for combat conditions since the round has the necessary punch to seriously incapacitate a human, even if they don't die instantly. I can't imagine anyone not being dissuaded from further agression after being hit by an AR-15. And, BTW, that is the point of self-defense - to eliminate the threat, not necessarily to kill.
 
All that I can add is that we are very fortunate that the bad guys do not have the same physiology as a white tail!
We would be in a world of hurt if a well shot bg could carry on as well as some of the deer I have seen. As said above, a well placed shot with the .223 should serve you well in either case. I have more respect for the deer though and will continue with the 7 WHBY in that area.
 
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