From what I have gathered so far, 7.62x39mm's supposedly will penetrate people and obstacles like a knife through hot butter, whereas the .223 won't. Basically, I'm worried about overpenetration for in-house fighting in non-military environments. I don't want to shoot someone, have the bullet penetrate the person, come out the other side, go through a dry wall, and hit someone else. So, my question is, is the .223 preferable over the 7.62 in terms of overpenetration? Has anyone had experience or tested .223's on dry walls? If so, did they overpenetrate as well? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
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.223 and 7.62x39mm on the issue penetration (here we go again?)
- Thread starter SB
- Start date
Destructo6
New member
Some anecdotal evidence:
I was screwing around one time, in the desert, and for fun I shot a wood 6x6 from about 10 feet with my AK. It didn't make it out the other side.
Another time, I was shooting a 3/16" soft metal plate. The AK knocked it around, but wouldn't penentrate at all. My .223 rifle punched holes in it like it wasn't even there.
Take it for what it's worth, but I think .223 has more obstacle penetration at short range than does 7.62x39.
I was screwing around one time, in the desert, and for fun I shot a wood 6x6 from about 10 feet with my AK. It didn't make it out the other side.
Another time, I was shooting a 3/16" soft metal plate. The AK knocked it around, but wouldn't penentrate at all. My .223 rifle punched holes in it like it wasn't even there.
Take it for what it's worth, but I think .223 has more obstacle penetration at short range than does 7.62x39.
O
olazul
Guest
There is suprising penetration data for the .223 JHP out there (less than 9mm), has anyone done the same for the 7.62 JHP?
regards
olazul
regards
olazul
This is not very scientific, but is my own experience with the 7.62x39(from an SKS).
I had the good fortune of being able to shoot up a junk pile full of cars, freezers, AC units, etc. One steel core (Norinco) round went completely through two car doors, a freezer (severing coolant lines) and finally hitting a steel I-beam and leaving a serious dent. On the other hand I've shot .223 at thin metal targets and created only a small dent(no hole). I'm not sure what this proves, but I won't be hiding behind cars or appliances if someone shoots at me with an AK or SKS.
I had the good fortune of being able to shoot up a junk pile full of cars, freezers, AC units, etc. One steel core (Norinco) round went completely through two car doors, a freezer (severing coolant lines) and finally hitting a steel I-beam and leaving a serious dent. On the other hand I've shot .223 at thin metal targets and created only a small dent(no hole). I'm not sure what this proves, but I won't be hiding behind cars or appliances if someone shoots at me with an AK or SKS.
A guy over on AK-47.NET did some decent penitration tests on some 7.62x39mm.
Here is the link.
http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/Forum18/HTML/000064.html
Chuck
Here is the link.
http://www.ak-47.net/akcgi/Forum18/HTML/000064.html
Chuck
BTW, the penetration characteristics between steel and double-walled plaster board with space between them are very different. I, too, have noted excellent penetration of mild steel at 100 yards with .223 that 7.62X39 couldn't come *close* to getting through. However, it has been reported by many sources that I trust that the bigger, heavier bullet of the 7.62X39 will penetrate many, many more hollow-core walls of sheetrock than .223. The .223, it seems, tends to break into at least two principle pieces when impacted with sheetrock or soft media at high velocity (>2400 fps).
I've always meant to conduct tests with sh!etrock walls spaced by a couple of feet, myself, but I've had to read other's reports.
It has been my observation, by the way, that the .223 bullets that were punching through my mild-steel "dingers" were molten lead when they exited. The "bullet" that would hit the crateboard I had behind it would pool into one or two wide ingots in a depression on the surface. The jacket usually lines the crater in the plate.
Apples and oranges, would it not seem?
[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited September 02, 1999).]
I've always meant to conduct tests with sh!etrock walls spaced by a couple of feet, myself, but I've had to read other's reports.
It has been my observation, by the way, that the .223 bullets that were punching through my mild-steel "dingers" were molten lead when they exited. The "bullet" that would hit the crateboard I had behind it would pool into one or two wide ingots in a depression on the surface. The jacket usually lines the crater in the plate.
Apples and oranges, would it not seem?
[This message has been edited by Long Path (edited September 02, 1999).]
Sonic Boom
Inactive
Well, I hope I don't sound too unfelicitous with my comment, but compliments of the German Army in Kosovo, we know that a 70s model Fiat won't do much to stop the .223.
Due to it's extreme velocity most .223 ball ammo will penetrate well out to moderate ranges. One of the problems is that there isn't much bullet left to continue on. This was partially addressed with the new SS109 ammo. The 7.62X39 relies more on mass than on velocity to achieve it's penetrtion so, if it makes it through it's target there is more bullet left on the other side. Which is better? Define your mission and select the appropriate ammo. Its the old .357 vs. 45 auto debate revisited. Bullet construction is a vital part of this question.
The 7.62X39 is an old 1944 designed round, the new Soviet one is more like the 5.56/223 as regards knockdown and tumbling/fragmentation etc.[The SOF magazine did a good test on this, and the 7.62X39mm DID have a mild steel penetrator as originally imported -but not now.]
For a REAL penetrator try a 7.62X54mm Chinese/Soviet, some had a tool-steel blunt penetrators incerted(steel case,silver painted tip on projectile)as an AP round!!WOW...
The penetrator in the new NATO 5.56mm/223 SS120(65gn @3,300 FPS?) as used by OZ overcomes the fragmentation problem -but now it over-penetrates and so has other serious problems!
The member who said it was 'largely a matter of bullet construction' I believe, said it all.
Oh...
The obsolete 7.62X39mm has the ballistics(and calibre) with a 125gn projectile of a Winchester 30/30 !
(If you don't believe me, look it up the ballistics tables!)
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***Big Bunny***
For a REAL penetrator try a 7.62X54mm Chinese/Soviet, some had a tool-steel blunt penetrators incerted(steel case,silver painted tip on projectile)as an AP round!!WOW...
The penetrator in the new NATO 5.56mm/223 SS120(65gn @3,300 FPS?) as used by OZ overcomes the fragmentation problem -but now it over-penetrates and so has other serious problems!
The member who said it was 'largely a matter of bullet construction' I believe, said it all.
Oh...
The obsolete 7.62X39mm has the ballistics(and calibre) with a 125gn projectile of a Winchester 30/30 !
(If you don't believe me, look it up the ballistics tables!)
------------------
***Big Bunny***