223/556 Annealing Brass

N

Nick_C_S

New member
Hi, I've been meaning to ask this for some time now. tangolima's post regarding his short brass life prompted me to make that time to ask now . . .

Do I need to anneal my brass for my AR platform rifle?

Having moved to the free state of Idaho last year, I spent last summer working on loads for my AR (the upper states ".556 NATO - 1:7" - or something to that effect). With lots more work to do once the weather gets warm again.

Vitrually all my brass is "LC" of various vintages - lots of "16," so that's what I've been using. I segregate the vintages to keep track of the load cycles. At any rate, some of my LC-16 has now been loaded and discharged five times (including the original factory loading). I full-length size (SB die) and trim (1.750") every cycle. If it matters, I don't load hot; mild, actually.

So far, I don't see any issues with neck cracks or whatever. Which brings me to my question. At this point, I don't see any reason to anneal. And if memory serves, I don't recall any of my load manuals mentioning annealing. So what gives with annealing? I feel like I'm missing something.

-- Nick.
 
I personally don't think it's worth the effort for .223 given so much plentifully available (at least to me) brass. I won't even pick up range brass in .223 any more unless it's LC and I am certain it's only once fired (crimp intact). And I have a couple of buckets worth. Besides that, the AR dings them up enough that I'm not convinced it would realistically last much longer.

You don't really NEED to re-anneal any brass unless you're forming the case into another significantly different cartridge. There are advantages sometimes - more consistent bullet tension and longer case life being the most common. A match chamber on a long-range bolt rifle, or rare and hard-to-replace cartridge brass. But IMO neither advantage would be realized in a NATO-chambered AR-style rifle.
 
I trim and anneal every 5 loads. Just part of the ritual, regardless the caliber. People made fun of me for handloading 7.62x39 for SKS and 9mm for pistols. I just keep going.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
The old approach was to wait until neck splits started to occur and then anneal. As brass gets harder, its elongation at break (how far it can stretch without breaking) gets smaller and smaller. The splits tend to happen when the brass approaches 100% work hardening, which is why stress relieving the neck stops splitting. Some folks now anneal at every load cycle. Bryan Litz didn't find it made any difference in his 308 test, comparing cases annealed every time to cases resized ten times without annealing. Some claim it matters to the magnum cartridges but not the standard high-power rounds. My best guess at this point is the fact brass gets more springy as it hardens means folks using the same resizing dies or bushings and the same expanders are seeing a gradual loss of interference fit between the neck and bullet as the brass gets hard, and the resulting change in starting pressure is able to be detected in some instances.

Whether or not you get that depends on how fast your necks harden. This depends on how much they are worked, which, in turn, depends on how much they expand in your chamber and how far down your dies size them afterward, and how far up the expander then opens them afterward. If you want to minimize the brass working, use a die that sizes neck diameters correctly without needing expanding, size shoulder location down as little as necessary for performance. I was going to add not using a small base die unless you need to, but in the AR it can occur that a small base die will let you achieve feed reliability with less shoulder setback than might prove adequate without it.
 
Thanks Unclenick for the nitty-gritty explanation.

Thanks Ifishsum for the "practical" explanation.

I think that sufficiently gets my head around annealing for me at this time in my AR loading endeavors.

Thanks again.
 
I’ll add and this seems to be controversial in some forums . Usually in benchrest threads but I stick by this . When annealing for an auto loader I recommend stress relieving rather then full annealing to what I call dead soft . In my admittedly lower number of test several years ago . I found that fully annealed 308 and 223 cases resulted is less then desirable bullet hold . I have no data on the actual grip/bullet pull weights but can say my fully annealed necks in both cartridges allowed me to easily push the seated bullet deeper just by pushing the tip of the bullet into the bench .

What ever that force is/was I concluded was not enough to stop bullet set back in a auto loader as the bolt strips the case from the mag aggressively pushes is into the chamber . I will also add in most situations I do not crimp my AR loads unless they are for storage and SHTF type stuff . I shoot a lot of match bullets that don’t have a crimp grove so I don’t crimp those for obvious reasons . Meaning I rely solely on neck tension for my bullet hold .

Point being to all that is if you don’t crimp you will or at least I do , want adequate bullet hold when using a auto loader . For this I use a heat indicator applied to my cases when annealing . My go to temp is 750* to stress relieve the neck and shoulder rather then the 1100 to 1200* the bench rest guys aim for which results in a pretty soft neck imho .

Lots of debate on this issue across multiple forums . The one constant I have observed is that all the guys saying anneal to dead soft are annealing for precision, bolt gun use . The majority of those guys are also loading one round at a time by hand .

That all said it is a tad harder to get consistent result when trying to stop the annealing process in the middle of the temperature range do to it's relatively short window to work with . However we are not looking for benchrest consistency but rather stress relief for longer case life .

ekRsvz.jpg
 
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my opinion, dealing AR platform for decades, and reloading for thousands of hours...

Annealing for AR platform is not needed, whatsoever, and I would say that it is mis-information to say its needed. it is not needed. Go ahead and reload your brass 10x or whatever, you will see, it will still run in an AR just fine.

I am talking AR platform here. The primer pockets are going loose before most things negative occur in the brass. thats IF you load near max....If you load weaker loads, then the necks will split probably between 10-20 reloads, variably.

What I find to keep your brass from AR in top shape is DO NOT eject them onto concrete. Use a net and catch them. HUGE difference in life of them. The necks last longer. So many times, neck lands on concrete, causing small split, etc or dents in neck. not good for life...

Also, I am completely against small base dies for AR Platform loads. Don't buy it, use standard dies. Small base dies are such junk, I absolutely hate them.
 
The brass lasts 10-20 loads without annealing. Will it last longer if you anneal?

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
Hummer70 has one 308 case that has been reloaded 158 times, IIRC. Certainly, if the reason you are losing cases is neck splitting, then yes, it will extend life.

I will point out that when I put that chart together that MG posted from data in a metallurgy book, I was not cognizant of the fact the percent cold working of the brass being annealed would affect it. That chart is for one hour, and I can probably deduce what it was from that. Meanwhile, please take a look at my second post in the Annealing White Paper thread for a taste of the complexity of the situation.
 
I’m not buying it , not saying I won’t some day but not ready to throw everything I thought I knew about annealing away just yet :p
 
Metal god said:
I’ll add and this seems to be controversial in some forums . Usually in benchrest threads but I stick by this . When annealing for an auto loader I recommend stress relieving rather then full annealing to what I call dead soft . In my admittedly lower number of test several years ago . I found that fully annealed 308 and 223 cases resulted is less then desirable bullet hold . I have no data on the actual grip/bullet pull weights but can say my fully annealed necks in both cartridges allowed me to easily push the seated bullet deeper just by pushing the tip of the bullet into the bench .

What ever that force is/was I concluded was not enough to stop bullet set back in a auto loader as the bolt strips the case from the mag aggressively pushes is into the chamber . I will also add in most situations I do not crimp my AR loads unless they are for storage and SHTF type stuff . I shoot a lot of match bullets that don’t have a crimp grove so I don’t crimp those for obvious reasons . Meaning I rely solely on neck tension for my bullet hold .

Point being to all that is if you don’t crimp you will or at least I do , want adequate bullet hold when using a auto loader . For this I use a heat indicator applied to my cases when annealing . My go to temp is 750* to stress relieve the neck and shoulder rather then the 1100 to 1200* the bench rest guys aim for which results in a pretty soft neck imho .

Lots of debate on this issue across multiple forums . The one constant I have observed is that all the guys saying anneal to dead soft are annealing for precision, bolt gun use . The majority of those guys are also loading one round at a time by hand .

That all said it is a tad harder to get consistent result when trying to stop the annealing process in the middle of the temperature range do to it's relatively short window to work with . However we are not looking for benchrest consistency but rather stress relief for longer case life .

ekRsvz.jpg
Click to expand...
Thumb ups too this, I found just stress relieving my .223 brass and my M1 brass tends to have less neck dings than full blown annealing. especially if your range has concrete. When those cases hit that concrete it really folds in those soft necks.

But I stop annealing.223 brass for ARs , you can buy a couple hundred Lapua cases and get 5 to 6 reloads full length sizing them. Then Just toss them. It will save you time. Trust me your accuracy will get better with trigger time than time spent annealing in an AR platform.
 
I anneal my rifle brass (ar included)every time. Don't know if it's necessary. but with the annealeez it's quick and easy.
 
Great post Metal God. It was a good read and I gained some knowledge; however, it may not apply to me specifically at this time.

From what I'm reading, 8 to 10 or more reloads out of 223 when not annealing is more or less normal. That's plenty for me.

So far, my loadings are mild. This spring, I'll be working on some 75gn Hornady bullets. This heavy bullet is new territory for me, using a different powder (AA2495) than all the previous (AA2230). Given the higher bullet weight, I may stoke these up a bit. We'll see.

As for crimp, I'm still playing with that. If I crimp, I use a Lee collet type. If the bullet is cannelured, I crimp it. If it isn't, I usually don't. Still playing around with that. I'm not going for max energy. I'm not going for ridiculous accuracy (if I was, I'd move to a bolt-action - and I may some day ;)). At this time, reliable function is the main priority.
 
I wonder how annealing before FL Sizing affects things since this adds cold work back into the brass.

I anneal everything everytime because it is easy and is a repeatable start point for the process.
 
Just to throw a monkey wrench into the discussion, I've never annealed anything, full length resize nearly all the time with everything and in over 50 years of loading for over 30 different cartridges the number of cases I've lost due to neck splits can be counted on my fingers alone.

No idea why but that's what I get. Have lost perhaps a double handful of .38Spl and even a couple .357s due to cracking from repeated flaring and crimping, but its a small number over decades of time and thousands of cases.

Maybe its compensation for not being lucky at many other things in life. :rolleyes:
 
I don't anneal pistol brass anyway. Burns my finger.

For rifle rounds, my brass routinely lasts 20 loads if not more. It usually gets recycled for signs of head separation.

Anyway we do what we do. Don't have to persuade others to do the same. I put milk in my tea. You don't have to.

-TL

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 
I don’t anneal 223 cases very often, but will do so when neck splits show up. Lapua cases. Recently I have run into a serious neck split problem with 6.5 Grendel Hornady brass. On the 3rd firing 29 out of 30 cases had neck splits. This afternoon I annealed all my once fired brass and hope that will let me use the brass more than 3 times. I suspect the brass is not up to normal spec. We’ll see.
 
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