Hi guys i am lokking at a walther tph SS in .22lr and a kel tec P32.Which is better?I know that the walther weighs double what a P32 does.The walther seems to have more mystique to it.Or is this only my opinion?I have fired tph's in 25acp and they were pretty acurate out to 25 ft much farther than guns of this type will be used.I think any gun is better than saying please don't hurt me!Some say that the 32 is better than a 22lr,bigger hole.With hollow points a 32 may not even expand,right?A standard velocity 22 slug is doing ,what? 1200 fps? So doesn't a 22 slug have a better chance of going through clothing etc..and getting to vitals?How about stingers from cci those things are really moving right?1400 fps maybe? Any help would be great.
22 VS .32 auto for very discreet carry?Walther tph or kel tec p32
- Thread starter 1911guy
- Start date
Kentucky Rifle
New member
1911guy,
In a big gun shop that I frequent there is a glass case with 3 or 4 used THP's in it. They look good, great in fact. However they are still in the used gun case. Now, why would that be? I don't think they are reliable, and their owners traded them in on something that was.
The P-32 is definately not as handsome as a TPH. However, mine has never had a malfunction and it shoots anything I've loaded it with. Also, as you say, the P-32 is MUCH lighter plus it has a much more effective round. I find that for summer cary in a front pocket, the P-32 can't be beat.
This opinion is shared by Oleg and a lot more guys. I'm sure that all P-32's aren't great, after all they are pretty new. Mine is great.
My opinion. (Tonight tempered with a little Glenlivet.
)
Will
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Mendacity is the system we live in.
In a big gun shop that I frequent there is a glass case with 3 or 4 used THP's in it. They look good, great in fact. However they are still in the used gun case. Now, why would that be? I don't think they are reliable, and their owners traded them in on something that was.
The P-32 is definately not as handsome as a TPH. However, mine has never had a malfunction and it shoots anything I've loaded it with. Also, as you say, the P-32 is MUCH lighter plus it has a much more effective round. I find that for summer cary in a front pocket, the P-32 can't be beat.
This opinion is shared by Oleg and a lot more guys. I'm sure that all P-32's aren't great, after all they are pretty new. Mine is great.
My opinion. (Tonight tempered with a little Glenlivet.
Will
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Mendacity is the system we live in.
The TPH is an excellent small pistol, BUT reliable function is dependent on proper ammunition selection.
First you must use high velocity ,22LR ammunition. Other types of .22LR may not function reliably.
Second you must test the brand (or brands) and type (or types) pf ammunition that you would like to use in your pistol extensively
When you find a particular brand or brands that work well in your gun buy it in quantoty. If you buy more later on, be sure you are getting the same lot number
I you do this I think you will find that the TPH woll function reliably and is capabl of delivering excellent accuracy. Mine will keep a fill magazine sshots in the head of a man size targets at 15 yards.
First you must use high velocity ,22LR ammunition. Other types of .22LR may not function reliably.
Second you must test the brand (or brands) and type (or types) pf ammunition that you would like to use in your pistol extensively
When you find a particular brand or brands that work well in your gun buy it in quantoty. If you buy more later on, be sure you are getting the same lot number
I you do this I think you will find that the TPH woll function reliably and is capabl of delivering excellent accuracy. Mine will keep a fill magazine sshots in the head of a man size targets at 15 yards.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1911guy:
Hi guys i am lokking at a walther tph SS in .22lr and a kel tec P32.Which is better?[/quote]
Unless the TPH is German-made, I'd say pass. The US-made TPH has a long record of unreliability, altho I do know fellows who say that CCI "Stinger" .22 ammo works just fine after a bit of ramp polishing and such.
However, look around for a German-made Walther PPK in .32 for "Sunday go to meeting" carry. The German national police just upgraded to the Walther P99 along with several major German city police forces, and we are the lucky recipients of many mint PPK and PP series pistols with nothing but holster wear. These are running in the $350-$450 range, but I have seen them as low as $289 in Shotgun News.
As for ammo, the Italian-made Fiocchi 60gr SJHP is pretty hot stuff. Their 73-gr FMJ load is also hot, if you live in an area that prohibits hollow points. I wouldn't recommend a steady diet of either loads unless you change the recoil spring every 3,000 rounds or so. For practice, I use the UMC 71-gr FMJ load available at WalMart for about $8 a box, or my own reloads of a Remington 71-gr FMJ over 2.5gr of Win231 powder.
The .32 PPK is noticably smaller than the .380 version - I've been carrying one for six months now and I've really come to admire it's lightness, slimness, accuracy and reliability - not a single jam yet.
As for the KelTec, well, I've only held one in the shop so I have no hard opinion to offer.
Hi guys i am lokking at a walther tph SS in .22lr and a kel tec P32.Which is better?[/quote]
Unless the TPH is German-made, I'd say pass. The US-made TPH has a long record of unreliability, altho I do know fellows who say that CCI "Stinger" .22 ammo works just fine after a bit of ramp polishing and such.
However, look around for a German-made Walther PPK in .32 for "Sunday go to meeting" carry. The German national police just upgraded to the Walther P99 along with several major German city police forces, and we are the lucky recipients of many mint PPK and PP series pistols with nothing but holster wear. These are running in the $350-$450 range, but I have seen them as low as $289 in Shotgun News.
As for ammo, the Italian-made Fiocchi 60gr SJHP is pretty hot stuff. Their 73-gr FMJ load is also hot, if you live in an area that prohibits hollow points. I wouldn't recommend a steady diet of either loads unless you change the recoil spring every 3,000 rounds or so. For practice, I use the UMC 71-gr FMJ load available at WalMart for about $8 a box, or my own reloads of a Remington 71-gr FMJ over 2.5gr of Win231 powder.
The .32 PPK is noticably smaller than the .380 version - I've been carrying one for six months now and I've really come to admire it's lightness, slimness, accuracy and reliability - not a single jam yet.
As for the KelTec, well, I've only held one in the shop so I have no hard opinion to offer.
You might also look at a NAA guardian or a black widow 22 mag. I believe the 22mag has better penetration and a better selection of ammo. The keltec needs to be deburred and finished badly as the one I saw was quite rough. The NAA seems to be finished better for a lower price.
I am also looking at either a NAA or a P32. I would also look at a Kahr 9 in the new poly. Kahr has always been deemed too heavy for small carry in the pocket but they may have lightned it up. I haven't seen one yet.
I am also looking at either a NAA or a P32. I would also look at a Kahr 9 in the new poly. Kahr has always been deemed too heavy for small carry in the pocket but they may have lightned it up. I haven't seen one yet.
NAA Spartacus had would not feed the FN hardball at all. My P-32 (1XX) started hiccupping after 50 rounds or so...but considering that his piece cost 1/3 more, has a worse trigger pull, and is heavier, I'm quite satisfied with mine. Reliability (I'm about 250 rounds) seems to be almost 100% now. With shorter OAL cartridges with a different profile, I'd probably never have had a problem in first place. I love mine.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 1911guy:
Hi guys i am lokking at a walther tph SS in .22lr and a kel tec P32.Which is better?I know that the walther weighs double what a P32 does.The walther seems to have more mystique to it.Or is this only my opinion?I have fired tph's in 25acp and they were pretty acurate out to 25 ft much farther than guns of this type will be used.I think any gun is better than saying please don't hurt me!Some say that the 32 is better than a 22lr,bigger hole.[/quote]
This seems like a "no-brainer", go for the .32. First off, it's lighter and smaller, and my Keltec P32 has been very reliable. If you pull it out in a defensive situation, you'll wish you had a .45, and you sure won't want to have a .22 in that case!
Hi guys i am lokking at a walther tph SS in .22lr and a kel tec P32.Which is better?I know that the walther weighs double what a P32 does.The walther seems to have more mystique to it.Or is this only my opinion?I have fired tph's in 25acp and they were pretty acurate out to 25 ft much farther than guns of this type will be used.I think any gun is better than saying please don't hurt me!Some say that the 32 is better than a 22lr,bigger hole.[/quote]
This seems like a "no-brainer", go for the .32. First off, it's lighter and smaller, and my Keltec P32 has been very reliable. If you pull it out in a defensive situation, you'll wish you had a .45, and you sure won't want to have a .22 in that case!
Steve Smith
New member
I have a P-32 now too. WLM is probably cringing right now saying,"Dn't tell him about the extractor!"
But it's not a biggie. Yeah, I broke my extractor before I'd fired 50 rounds. I think I messed up the rims going into the mag. KT's sending a replacement now. I really don't think it had anything to do with the gun. Even though the extractor's broken, I'm still carrying it, because it's the easiest carrying gun you can imagine, and I'll at least get one or two shots off before it jams. I can walk around all day at work, without a jacket or any cover type garment, and no-one even THINKS that I'm armed, and the lack of weight is outstanding! Honestly, I'd love to carry my .45 everwhere, but I can't. Go for the P-32.
Mike Irwin
Staff
Go with the Kel Tec and hardball ammunition.
Why hardball? To get the most penetration possible out of the round. Penetration is what you need with these marginal rounds, not expansion. If the round expands, but doesn't make it through the muscle tissue into where it will have some effect, you're not gaining anything at all.
Why hardball? To get the most penetration possible out of the round. Penetration is what you need with these marginal rounds, not expansion. If the round expands, but doesn't make it through the muscle tissue into where it will have some effect, you're not gaining anything at all.
Howdy,
I started a post a while back on .32 vs .22 and got some good info. Do a search on it. If you look at em on paper there isn't really much justification balistically to choose one over the other. I found that there is no velocity advantage in .32 and only a 30ish foot pound advantage in .32.
There is alot of annecdotal hyperboly on the subject and alot of members on this forum do not like .22 and ridicule it for defense but the fact remains it kills more people in America than all other calibers combined, right(not sure if these stats are correct or current but believe it was true once). That is a pretty good track record if you ask me.
Oleg made some good points and I have come to the conclusion that the .32 may have a slight advantage in penetration but I know I can go into virtually any home in America and come out with a box of .22 ammo. Even our local conveniance stores often have it(no .32's though). I know that is not a really good argument for a .22 over a .32.
One thing About the Kel Tech though, have you ever looked at the gap between the slide and the frame?(i'm not sure if I was looking at a p11 or a p32 but assume they are similar). It looks like you could shove a quarter in there. It may never cause the gun to malfunction if someting like, got in there, but just for that reason alone I might not get one. -ddt
I started a post a while back on .32 vs .22 and got some good info. Do a search on it. If you look at em on paper there isn't really much justification balistically to choose one over the other. I found that there is no velocity advantage in .32 and only a 30ish foot pound advantage in .32.
There is alot of annecdotal hyperboly on the subject and alot of members on this forum do not like .22 and ridicule it for defense but the fact remains it kills more people in America than all other calibers combined, right(not sure if these stats are correct or current but believe it was true once). That is a pretty good track record if you ask me.
Oleg made some good points and I have come to the conclusion that the .32 may have a slight advantage in penetration but I know I can go into virtually any home in America and come out with a box of .22 ammo. Even our local conveniance stores often have it(no .32's though). I know that is not a really good argument for a .22 over a .32.
One thing About the Kel Tech though, have you ever looked at the gap between the slide and the frame?(i'm not sure if I was looking at a p11 or a p32 but assume they are similar). It looks like you could shove a quarter in there. It may never cause the gun to malfunction if someting like, got in there, but just for that reason alone I might not get one. -ddt
I think you are comparing apples and oranges. The .22 round is fine for use as a utility and plinking round. It's fun to shoot. And it cycles poorly in semi-autos, due to it's long skinny profile. I'd rather have a .22 caliber pistol than be forced to use harsh language...
The .32 is more reliable and is available in a decent variety of loadings, though not as much as in the past.
However, for my vote, go with a .380. Search for a nice used Mustang. Aside from the notorious "bad one" that seems to show up now and again, they are well made, fine weapons that pack a punch. And they aren't too much bigger than the weapons you mention.
Back to the .22s. My partner picked up a TPH after lusting after Walthers for years. The TPH is beautifully designed and machined. It looks great! In the field, though, he couldn't get it to cycle reliably, that is, there was a small chance that it wouldn't get through the magazine without failing to extract or double feeding. On top of that, the rear of the weapon tended to "pinch" him, a painful reminder that the little gun is very finicky.
After he used my Beretta 21A, he decided to sell his TPH. The 21A has all the advantages of the Walther, plus a tip up barrel. Not to mention that it's more comfortable to hold and doesn't pinch. It's available with a stainless slide/alloy frame. Check it out; I'm happy with mine, which I bring along camping/hiking/riding. I wouldn't want to "defend" myself with it, though...
--
Brian
The .32 is more reliable and is available in a decent variety of loadings, though not as much as in the past.
However, for my vote, go with a .380. Search for a nice used Mustang. Aside from the notorious "bad one" that seems to show up now and again, they are well made, fine weapons that pack a punch. And they aren't too much bigger than the weapons you mention.
Back to the .22s. My partner picked up a TPH after lusting after Walthers for years. The TPH is beautifully designed and machined. It looks great! In the field, though, he couldn't get it to cycle reliably, that is, there was a small chance that it wouldn't get through the magazine without failing to extract or double feeding. On top of that, the rear of the weapon tended to "pinch" him, a painful reminder that the little gun is very finicky.
After he used my Beretta 21A, he decided to sell his TPH. The 21A has all the advantages of the Walther, plus a tip up barrel. Not to mention that it's more comfortable to hold and doesn't pinch. It's available with a stainless slide/alloy frame. Check it out; I'm happy with mine, which I bring along camping/hiking/riding. I wouldn't want to "defend" myself with it, though...
--
Brian
I forgot to mention that with ANY small .22 semi-auto, it is imperative to find the diet that your weapon likes, and to clean the barrel often.
I use Stingers in my 21A, and I use a q-tip to get the schmutz out of the barrel every 50 rounds or so. Did i mention that the tip up barrel is great? Much easier to clean than the TPH's fixed barrel...
Regards,
--
Brian
I use Stingers in my 21A, and I use a q-tip to get the schmutz out of the barrel every 50 rounds or so. Did i mention that the tip up barrel is great? Much easier to clean than the TPH's fixed barrel...
Regards,
--
Brian
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ddt4free:
Howdy,
I started a post a while back on .32 vs .22 and got some good info. Do a search on it. If you look at em on paper there isn't really much justification balistically to choose one over the other. I found that there is no velocity advantage in .32 and only a 30ish foot pound advantage in .32.
There is alot of annecdotal hyperboly on the subject and alot of members on this forum do not like .22 and ridicule it for defense but the fact remains it kills more people in America than all other calibers combined
[/quote]
I think you miss several important facts here. First off, I don't know where you come up with 30 F/P difference between .32ACP defensive loadings and any .22LR loading. Remember, they're being shot of guns with about 2 to 2 1/2" barrels. I think when you do the comparisons, you'll find a huge difference. Next, the .32 makes a much larger hole, almost twice the cross sectional area. A .32ACP is very marginal in a defensive situation, and a .22LR is even more marginal. Finally, the quote about the .22 killing more people misses the whole point. I carry a defensive handgun to stop an attack, I'm not walking around trying to run up my score of kills. The whole point is to stop the attack quickly. You'll be damned lucky to stop it quickly with the .32, and it's much less likely to happen with the .22. I don't really care if the guy dies a few hours later, I want him stopped before he hurts or kills me!
Howdy,
I started a post a while back on .32 vs .22 and got some good info. Do a search on it. If you look at em on paper there isn't really much justification balistically to choose one over the other. I found that there is no velocity advantage in .32 and only a 30ish foot pound advantage in .32.
There is alot of annecdotal hyperboly on the subject and alot of members on this forum do not like .22 and ridicule it for defense but the fact remains it kills more people in America than all other calibers combined
[/quote]
I think you miss several important facts here. First off, I don't know where you come up with 30 F/P difference between .32ACP defensive loadings and any .22LR loading. Remember, they're being shot of guns with about 2 to 2 1/2" barrels. I think when you do the comparisons, you'll find a huge difference. Next, the .32 makes a much larger hole, almost twice the cross sectional area. A .32ACP is very marginal in a defensive situation, and a .22LR is even more marginal. Finally, the quote about the .22 killing more people misses the whole point. I carry a defensive handgun to stop an attack, I'm not walking around trying to run up my score of kills. The whole point is to stop the attack quickly. You'll be damned lucky to stop it quickly with the .32, and it's much less likely to happen with the .22. I don't really care if the guy dies a few hours later, I want him stopped before he hurts or kills me!
Jody Hudson
New member
My son and I both bought Keltecs. I bought one first in .40 and then in .32. I sold them both.
We both have .22 TPHs American Made. I suspect that the German ones are better. I hope to find one although I've looked for 20 years.
The TPH is wonderfully accurate and get's more so the more it is fired. I like to shoot mine against other folks with "real pistols" at distances of a hundred yards and more where we can see the rounds hit; dirt pits, private ponds, etc.
The hotter the round the better the TPH functions. We used to always use Stingers and they were excellent. We now use ONLY QuickShocks and they are FANTASTIC!!!
I've had about 10 TPHs and my son and I still have 4 or 5 between us. The American ones often had to go back to Walther a time or three before they got right. Interarms is out of the Walther business now and sold to Smith and Wesson. Smith and Wesson has quit making the TPHs and stocks no parts for them.
The TPH is in my opinion the finest little gun ever made by a HUGE margin.
I sold the Keltecs because they were so horribly inaccurate that it was no fun to shoot them. The TPHs are so accurate that it's almost no fun to shoot anything else -- except my Makarovs.
We did a lot of shooting of the .32s into cans, vegetables, meat, paper, etc. and the .22 QuickShock was so far superior to any .32 that we both sold all the little .32s we had and decided there was just no .32 that was even close to the .22 QuickShock in ability and there was certainly nothing in .32 including the HUGE Walther PP series that is even close to the accuracy of the TPH.
That's my story.
TPH for small. Makarov 9x18 for bigger. After that it's the Mossberg 500.
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Talk is cheap; Free Speech is NOT.
We both have .22 TPHs American Made. I suspect that the German ones are better. I hope to find one although I've looked for 20 years.
The TPH is wonderfully accurate and get's more so the more it is fired. I like to shoot mine against other folks with "real pistols" at distances of a hundred yards and more where we can see the rounds hit; dirt pits, private ponds, etc.
The hotter the round the better the TPH functions. We used to always use Stingers and they were excellent. We now use ONLY QuickShocks and they are FANTASTIC!!!
I've had about 10 TPHs and my son and I still have 4 or 5 between us. The American ones often had to go back to Walther a time or three before they got right. Interarms is out of the Walther business now and sold to Smith and Wesson. Smith and Wesson has quit making the TPHs and stocks no parts for them.
The TPH is in my opinion the finest little gun ever made by a HUGE margin.
I sold the Keltecs because they were so horribly inaccurate that it was no fun to shoot them. The TPHs are so accurate that it's almost no fun to shoot anything else -- except my Makarovs.
We did a lot of shooting of the .32s into cans, vegetables, meat, paper, etc. and the .22 QuickShock was so far superior to any .32 that we both sold all the little .32s we had and decided there was just no .32 that was even close to the .22 QuickShock in ability and there was certainly nothing in .32 including the HUGE Walther PP series that is even close to the accuracy of the TPH.
That's my story.
TPH for small. Makarov 9x18 for bigger. After that it's the Mossberg 500.
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Talk is cheap; Free Speech is NOT.
Not trying to be a smart*** but MYSTIQUE does not stop BG's. You can't impress them to death. Always carry the most potent round that you can shoot well if it comes in a reliable gun that fits your style of carry. In this case we are looking at pocket pistols in .22 or .32. Go with the .32 . Personally, I am looking at the keltec.32 and NAA Guardian for this role for myself. Good luck whichever you chose.
I just got my Kel-Tec P32 in chrome two days ago. 50 rounds went through it, without jamming, straight out of the package. If I hold on to it right I can keep all eight shots in the crainio-ocular region of a silhouette target at ten yards with slow, controlled fire. Rapid fire decreases the range to about 5-7 yards, even when holding it with both hands. As a goof, I also took a carefully aimed pot shot at a crow about 25 yards away and plugged it dead. Pure luck! The trick with the P32 seems to be holding it tight with both hands, and I mean tight. I'm very happy with mine. Good luck!
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"Oh yeah? Well I talk LOOOUDLY! And I carry a BIIIGGER stick! And I'll use it, too." -Yoesemite Sam
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"Oh yeah? Well I talk LOOOUDLY! And I carry a BIIIGGER stick! And I'll use it, too." -Yoesemite Sam
I was lucky to find my chrome slide Kel-Tec P-32 at the last gun show. Around here you have to get on a waiting list to buy one. I have had zero malfunctions with mine. This little gun is the ideal LEO backup gun, light weight, reliable and easy to carry and conceal.
I have wanted a TPH for years and almost bought one until the gun shop owner who is a friend told me to get something else, due to horrible reliability problems. He had several almost new ones in his display case. That time I ended up with a Beretta 21 which is very reliable. But those TPHs sure are pretty, but that don't feed the bulldog.
...7th
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SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.
I have wanted a TPH for years and almost bought one until the gun shop owner who is a friend told me to get something else, due to horrible reliability problems. He had several almost new ones in his display case. That time I ended up with a Beretta 21 which is very reliable. But those TPHs sure are pretty, but that don't feed the bulldog.
...7th
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SUPPORT YOUR LOCAL POLICE, KEEP THEM INDEPENDENT.