.22 TCM Opinions

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dakota.potts

New member
I never thought I'd be recoil sensitive, but here I am.

I found out last year that I have narcolepsy, a lifelong neurological condition. It doesn't stop me from shooting, carrying or driving as I'm under treatment with regular checkups. Let's not dwell on this too much, it's just background for the rest of the question.

One of the side effects of the treatment for me has been hand tremors. They're not so bad and they're occasional. Unfortunately, too much stimulation (like recoil) causes them to act up quickly. I've stopped shooting my G43X altogether. I never thought the recoil was bad on it, but unfortunately it's too much for me lately in the sense that it causes my hands to start shaking quickly and it's becoming pretty bothersome.

My G19 I can shoot for longer, and my .32s and .25s I can shoot all day with no issue. In fact, I shoot my Armi Galesi .25 better at 10 yards than my G43X.

This got me thinking about other calibers. Carrying a .32 wouldn't be the end of the world but there's a definite power gap between it and modern cartridges. Thought about a revolver in .327 or .32-20 also. I really considered 5.7X28 but there really isn't a good gun choice for me.

Anyways, I ended up finding .22 TCM again and after researching it I really like the idea. Performance seems to be very impressive with little recoil. Although ammo is single source, it seems to be available and very reasonably priced. I definitely don't hate the ballistic profile of the round. And being that I live on a small homestead/farm in Florida, it seems like a very appropriate round for all manner of critters out here.

I'm looking into a RIA FS in 9mm and .22 TCM. Still lets me shoot 9mm when I want or if RIA's ammo dries up. They're not my favorite manufacturer but they haven't really encouraged anybody else to manufacture guns in their caliber. Or I see if I can still find one of their conversion kits for my G19.

Anybody have experience with the round in an RIA or another gun? Want to get some more informed opinions before I give it a try. How are the RIA 1911s? And how does the double stack grip and size compare to the single stack? I don't mind the extra weight of the double stack (probably helps with recoil too) but any grip larger than roughly a CZ75 is somewhat uncomfortable for me.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or experiences.
 
dakota.potts said:
Anybody have experience with the round in an RIA or another gun? Want to get some more informed opinions before I give it a try. How are the RIA 1911s? And how does the double stack grip and size compare to the single stack? I don't mind the extra weight of the double stack (probably helps with recoil too) but any grip larger than roughly a CZ75 is somewhat uncomfortable for me.

Thanks in advance for any thoughts or experiences.
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I haven't had an opportunity to shoot a .22 TCM, but I have shot a number of RIA 1911s, and I have owned three of their M200 series revolvers. They are good guns, and they have excellent warranty support if you should need it.

The RIA double stack frame seems to be reverse engineered from Para-Ordnance, and I have lots of experience with Para double stacks. The grip is a very personal thing. My hands are not especially large, and I find them very comfortable and easy to shoot. I have a friend, also a 1911 shooter, whose hands are about the same size as mine, and he just can't stand the double stack Paras. My advice would be to find someone who has a double stack para and see if he'll let you run a few mags through it to see how you like it.

As for the .22 TCM: https://ezine.m1911.org/showthread....Ultra-MS-Combo-High-Cap-1911-A2-Pistol-Review

I don't know the author of this review personally but I have corresponded with him on several occasions. I think he's a solid guy who wouldn't blow smoke in his review.
 
Aguila, thanks for your response. Any idea if it's a comparable frame size to the ATI Fatboy? We actually have one of those in the family if I could use that for a reference.

I'm actually thinking I'm more on the side of the single stack, but it looks like those may have been discontinued as I only see the double stack models in this caliber on the website.
 
dakota.potts said:
Aguila, thanks for your response. Any idea if it's a comparable frame size to the ATI Fatboy?
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Very comparable, in fact.

https://ezine.m1911.org/showthread.php?129-ATI-Fatboy-Review

dakota.potts said:
I'm actually thinking I'm more on the side of the single stack, but it looks like those may have been discontinued as I only see the double stack models in this caliber on the website.
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I don't recall that Armscor ever offered the .22 TCM in a single stack configuration.
 
Seems like you want reduced recoil yet more power than the .22WMR

Here are some thinking points:

Your G43 weighs 19oz
A 1911 in 9mm weighs about 40oz
Lots of steel frame 9mm's weigh around 40 oz (CZ75 and others come to mind)

by more than doubling the weight of your pistol you will feel much less paw-slap.

Your next idea is to try a different ammunition:

.22 TCM. What is it? Take a .223 cartridge, cut out the middle until it's the same length as a .38 Super, then solder it back together. A 40g bullets hums along at 2070 feet per second. There is one supplier for factory ammo, and they have two kinds: 40 g soft points and hollow points.

Lee and Hornady are making reloading dies on a limited production basis, so you better get dies ASAP as this is a wildcat and might be rare as hen's teeth in a few years if you want to keep shooting it. The upside is... converting to 9mm is simply a barrel swap.

Have you tried reduced recoil 9mm ammunition? IDPA and USPSA (don't have a power factor requirement.. I stand corrected!) Have some wimpy power factors so some people run ammunition
just barely powerful enough to tip the plates. Something like 147g and 850 fps. That's more than a .380's power and in a 40 oz pistol. Heck, keep reloading down and messing with the springs until you feel comfortable. (Steel Challenge doesn’t have a minimum power factor. My mistake. I am in to shooting paper (and dinner.))

Speaking of .380, I see that Walther is going the other way from the crowd and is introducing their 9mm CCP in a new .380 offering. It's a plastic frame and only weighs 22 oz. but it seems nicer to me than the Ruger LC380.

Hmm, what about the Rock Island Baby Rock? Steel frame 23 Oz .380 in a 1911 style.. but even so, it's still much smaller than a Commander frame and light 9mm loading.

I guess the reason people don't make a .380 race gun is that it's just too easy to change the springs and load down to however mild you want to shoot.

I am personally grappling with the concept of a 1911 in 9mm vs a CZ75 in 9mm. I loved my 1911 in .45acp and still can't quite get over the feeling that a 1911 in 9mm is like pineapple on pizza. Except I like pineapple on pizza.

And the simplest solution is to get a big .357 revolver and shoot .38 special out of it.
 
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Stinkeypete,
You're tracking about right.

I believe the cartridge you're thinking of is the .22 TCM, though. It's a .223 case cut down and necked to .22. Delivers the same ballistics as what you're talking about.

The 1911 I'm looking at includes both the .22 TCM and the 9mm, as you say. I don't reload, yet. I'm saving to have a foundation and metal building installed with 220V for a lathe and mill on the property - at that point I'd get set up for reloading but I'm a little ways off from that.

I actually do have a CZ75BD. Didn't think about carrying it because it's one I gussied up in gunsmithing school - color case hardened the frame and polished/hot blued the slide along with a total action and trigger job. I need to get it out. Still disassembled because the sear cage on those is a nightmare to put back together and it ended up being one of those projects I never got to finishing before health things went sideways and I lost access to a working shop.

Might have to try running some reduced loads through it. I did IDPA/USPSA a couple of times, but only for practice and didn't much care about the rules. Just used what ammo I had and shot the class they put me in.

Thanks for getting the wheels turning.

Selling the G43X should make a pretty good dent in the purchase price of the .22 TCM/9mm 1911 regardless. Those are the guns I came here looking for an opinion on.

Too bad I can't find a .22 TCM barrel for my CZ or Glock to try it out and see if I like it before buying a whole new gun.

Thought about the revolver too, either .38 or .327 magnum (really impressive specs on that one). I much prefer an autoloader. Not an either/or proposition though. A revolver's great to have on the farm regardless.
 
I picked up a 22TCM9R barrel for my G19. Have yet to get out and try it though. Hopefully this week. But I think it's an interesting little round. I like the odd ball rounds, one of my other favorites is the 7.62x25, something cool to me about these little bottle neck cases. Not always the most pleasant to reload but I like them.
 
What generation is your G19? I haven't seen any conversion barrels in that caliber for Gen 5.

I won't lie, I definitely looked into some oddball rounds like .30 Luger. Gray Guns was showing off some really nice Sig P220s in that caliber but way out of my price range lol.
 
stinkeypete said:
Have you tried reduced recoil 9mm ammunition? IDPA and USPSA don't have a power factor requirement so some people run ammunition just barely powerful enough to tip the plates.
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I beg your pardon?

https://www.idparulebook.com/chapter/8-equipment-rules/8-3-ammunition/

Minimum power factor for most classes other than stock revolver is 125. Most factory 9mm makes that, but not super wimpy, mouse fart loads. But every division has a minimum power factor. The same is true for USPSA.

https://uspsa.org/viewer/2020-USPSA-Competition-Rules.pdf

Scroll down to page 96 to see the power factor requirements for each division.
 
The o LT negative thing I have heard about the RIA is when you use the TCM configuration is that it will have feed issues in the early days of use. This was explained to lessen as you broke it in a bit which would make sense since the slide is designed for heavier 9mm. Not sure how many rounds it will take to break it in or not as I never followed up on the review. It looks interesting though.
 
Just a heads up but the .22 TCM round that fits in a Glock isn’t the same as the round that fits in the 1911. See below:


Because the only real difference is the bullet, . 22 TCM 9R can be used with standard . 22 TCM pistols, just not the other way around. The 9R load is capable of producing muzzle velocities in the 1,900- to 2,000-feet per second range, just a hair behind the standard load.Feb 17, 2015
 
Last summer I asked about this round. I tracked the round for four months on ammoseek. It didn’t show up in stock. Ever.

It might be in stock now, just know last year there was a period where you couldn’t get it at all. And if you couldn’t get it from the big stores on ammoseek, it wasn’t hidden out there :)
 
RI 1911 22TC - 9/22TCM Combo - Single Stack - 3.5"
Absolutely love this pistol. 1st box of ammo was $25 found and then $20 all over.
Now reloading which is the way to go - Brass is golden and I capture 90% but as a Fun, super lo recoil shooter - it is the best ever. What a boom at the range.
 
My only experience with the round is the 9R in a club member's Glock.
The bullet is very blunt to get it in a 9mm magazine instead of .38. So what? Your'e not shooting it at 300 yards.
Lots of flash and bang, not much recoil. Reliable function.

Hornady makes a 9mm Critical Defense Lite with a 100 gr bullet at typical 115 gr velocity. Maybe that would be enough less recoil for you to manage.
 
Good land. Sorry to hear about your problem. I'm glad you're not giving up on shooting.

And I absolutely don't want to give you any false hope but you're a (relatively) young person and medical science is coming up with new wonderous wonder drugs all the time. Hope they find something for you.
Good luck.
 
Have you considered a S&W 380EZ? The recoil is very soft. They have a 9 EZ version also.
I have the 380EZ and I have a RIA Baby Rock. The 380 EZ shoots much softer than the Baby Rock. Also, the springs are very stiff on the Baby Rock making more difficult to rack the slide.
 
A family member has systemic lupus (likely the same genetic background where my condition stemmed from) and just recently got a 380EZ Performance center. Great gun for her. I've fired it and enjoyed it. I've definitely thought about one and may end up getting one as an intermediate sized gun. I'm still interested in the .22 TCM but I'm sure I'll get to a point where I want something on the smaller side to carry in the hot summers (the whole reason I had the G43X after all).

Good suggestion. It's definitely a gun I recommend for people with hand strength issues (which I thankfully don't). I'm glad to see more manufacturers producing guns for a wider accessibility spectrum.
 
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