.22 target rifle sight upgrade - scope or peep sight?

D

dakota.potts

New member
I recently went out shooting with a friend of mine who spent 5 years shooting on an olympic style small bore team. We were surprised when we opened up our rifle cases to find that we both had a CZ 452. I have a decent general use scope on mine (Nikon P-22) and he used the stock iron sights on his. I have see through scope rings on mine so I can use my iron sights on certain settings and found that I can group better than I thought with iron sights, although the current set up is not especially friendly towards doing so.

I've been invited to an informal .22 shoot involving 3 positions at 50 yards which happens every month. I don't plan to dive headlong into competition, but I am a gunsmithing student and I've been looking for extracurricular projects and now I'm flirting with the idea of taking my relatively stock CZ to a higher "level" target rifle including upgrading the stock, trigger, etc.

But if I'm investing money in an upgrade, I'm torn between the type of optic I want. I do like a good scope and believe that I will ultimately get better groups with it, but it's the more expensive route and is likely to add more weight. There is a certain skillful element I like to iron sight shooting, but I accept the limitations of my eye sight (which is frankly not great) and I'm not sure I will be able to produce the same groups. Some type of spotting optic will likely be necessary.

What are your opinions if I decide to go through with the project?
 
If your eyes are not so good now they aren't going to get better.

Pretty much my position though I could shoot the daylights out of iron sites (included 22 rifle3 competition type) at one time.

I would invest in a good scope. Leopold makes a 2-7 Rimfire and I believe Redfield has a duplicate (not sure its as nice but their optics are good)

I too have a 452 and I find its trigger limiting. Rifle basix has a replacement trigger, have not researched it to find out how good it is.

It is a shame CZ does not offer that gun with a good trigger. The one on it is ok, but does not live up the rifle capability.
 
If I were going to invest in a scope, it would be higher than 7X. My current scope is a 2-7X Nikon and it works fine but I feel the low magnification limits me. It is very difficult to see the bullet holes at 50 yards and the crosshairs still cover the smaller targets. 100 yard shooting is pretty much impossible without a spotting optic of some kind.

A higher power scope would be nice for the bench, but I imagine it would kind of limit the versatility of the rifle in other situations.
 
There is something that I find attractive about being able to shoot well with iron sights. For some reason, I really enjoy shooting with iron sights. In today's world, I think that iron sights are under appreciated and I think part of it is that everybody has a burning desire to buy accessories for their guns and "trick" them out. There is nothing wrong with this. I suppose in a sense I do the same thing. However the point I am trying to make is that good shooters can shoot very well with iron sights, and iron sights are very capable of shooting great groups, great scores, what have you: depending on who is behind the trigger. This might get me in trouble, but I think another reason that people want to accessorize their guns is that they see this as a shortcut to getting better by buying stuff rather than through practice and learning.

The first thing I would do, if I was you, is to attend the match you are interested in and see what everyone else is using. Although it sounds from your description that it might just be a thing where you shoot whatever you bring. I shoot in something like that in the winter; everybody shoots and it's up to you, what you shoot. FWIW: in these matches I shoot iron sights. I don't feel I am at any disadvantage because of my equipment. I am at a disadvantage because of my skill with the rifle however (there are a lot of shooters much better than I am). I am sure, if you start shooting this match, that you will change your mind several times as to what you think the best thing to use is based on your actual experience of doing it.

I got involved in going to Appleseed shoots several years ago and I started out with iron sights. The first one I went to, I decided that there was no way I was ever going to be able to shoot a "Rifleman" score using iron sights. But, I also decided to keep at it; for some reason I really wanted to shoot with iron sights and I made it a personal goal to shoot a "Rifleman" score using iron sights. I had been shooting since early childhood, but I had never been taught the correct way to really shoot a rifle and I felt that part of that was learning to shoot with iron sights with a decent degree of precision. With some practice, I found that the problem was me and not the sights. It just took some practice, and then some more practice. At that point, I didn't find iron sights to be any disadvantage at all.

So, in summary, I would probably go with iron sights. But this is yet another one of those things that is a personal preference. Do whatever pulls your chain.
 
Last edited:
I've messed with CZs quite a bit, having a 452 Varmint and more recently, a 455, in .22WMR. Neither would win even an informal (Plinker) benchrest match without extensive accurizing. I've been there several times and unless you are not financially able to get something better, it's a "tough row to hoe".

The trigger is a big problem with most CZs, as is the bedding system, though I've heard reports of several that shot quite well. Chambers are also sloppy for fine target work.

Bottom line is the nature of the competition and accuracy of other contestants and their rifles. I'd recommend against trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear by throwing money and time into it. You may be way better off buying a used target rifle with a match trigger, target stock, and proven accuracy.
 
irons

All of my .22s have irons. Some are open sights; some are apertures. I am 69 years old and wear progressive lensed eyeglasses. What makes the irons useable on the target guns (an Anschutz and an FWB) is that both front and rear sights are apertures. I keep an adjustable iris on the rear.
A good source to look for sights is Champions Choice in LaVergne, TN
www.champchoice.com.
That being said.....CC's offerings tend to be high end and costly. They do offer a Gehmann rear that is about the cost of an inexpensive scope.
The Williams Sight Co. offers quite a variety of afffordable rear and front sights....workable and dependable items that won't break the bank.
Brownells has quite a few affordable apertures listed on their website.
http://www.brownells.com/search/index.htm?k=aperture+sights&ksubmit=y
Pete
 
Last edited:
Being a Gunsmith student I say you jump into this head first and try to make it the most accurate gun you can. Go for the optic too. Iron Sights are cool, don't get me wrong, and I still am blessed with 20/10 vision, however I don't have bionic eyes and lack a zoom feature. That's where that scope is going to be you best friend.

Good luck on your endeavor, and most importantly, HAVE FUN!

Mike
 
They make peep and globe sights specifically for the CZ but they aren't cheap and the are really not easy to find. The last 'reliable' source I'm aware of is a guy on rimfire central who may or may not respond to emails.

Other sights like the Williams or Anchutz are going to require fitting, drilling, etc.

I really wanted to get a peep for my CZ for a while but I eventually gave up. You could probably buy a Savage FVT MK II with peeps for not much more than those CZ sights.

Now I just wish I could buy cheap .22 ammo...
 
Good eyes can shoot a peep almost as good as scoped. But at 71, i do better with a 12x scope. Both sight types are fun.
 
Even with advanced years, iron sights are still better when shooting anywhere other than a bench for me.
Too much distracting reticle wobble.
Different story though from a bench.
Definitely better with a scope, but since I don't carry a bench around with me, I still prefer iron sights on a rifle.
But only you can decide.
 
Before investing money in an upgrade decide what type of competitive shooting you want to do. Not all of 'em allow optics.
In any case, at 50 yards, off hand, a scope will magnify the amount of 'wobble' you naturally have.
Even with advanced years, I'm just partial to irons. Mind you, my specs are for distance.
 
As has already been said go to the event and see what is really needed. It may help your decision on what you will buy and/ or build. My club used to shoot a prone 50,100 and 200 yard course of fire for fun. 20 shots at each distance. Everyone shot what they brought. Light weight sporters to heavy prone guns. I like irons better but needing a spotting scope to see bullet holes is sometimes annoying. For convenience I shoot my Walther GX1 with a 16x scope.
Another item to consider would be to insure that you can make reliable sight changes. 1/2 moa change on the sights can move shots from wide 9's to center 10's. Wind changes can cause you to adjust between shots.
Smallbore position and prone shooting is great fun and excellent marksmanship training. Go and enjoy
 
For those who may not be aware, make sure your scope is parallax free at the distance of choice (ie 50 yards). Many low end rifle scopes are not parallax free until at 100 yds.
 
What are your opinions if I decide to go through with the project?
Click to expand...
Is the build worth the effort and money spent? Absolutely!!

22 lr is the most basic rim fire rifle every shooter has in his closet. To have a ultra accurate one is a small bore enthusiasts dream.
Most anyone can pass along Grandaddys favorite 22 rifle to the next generation. But passing a custom built one. Grandpa built himself. Assuredly that rifle will be cherished beyond the norm and kept!!
 
Thanks all, it appears I may have been slightly misleading.

I have been invited to an informal competition, but I'm not necessarily interested in building a 3 position bullseye competition rifle. It was moreso shooting with another more experienced rimfire shooter (also a fellow gunsmithing student) who shoots the same type of rifle as me that got me thinking about using one as a gunsmithing project.

Looking back, my rimfire shooting is almost exclusively from a bench. My CZ 452 is the gun I take when I want to spend a couple hours shooting 100 rounds of ammo. Shooting groups on a bench is very meditative for me. So it seems in that regard I am leaning pretty heavily towards a higher power optic, likely either a 4-14 or a 6-18. I think that it would be most satisfying for me as a project to build a platform that's likely to result in tighter groups.

My only hesitation is understanding that a higher power scope limits the versatility. But I guess if I want to go the iron sight direction, I can always swap it out for a dovetail mounted peep sight.
 
Good luck with your gun smithing efforts no matter which way you go. I enjoy hearing about them and hope you keep posting even after you finish your training.

This doesn't apply to your particular situation but when you talk about higher power optics on a target .22 I'm sure most of the older shooters remember when a three or four position 'smallbore' shooter wouldn't hesitate, they'd just go get a Unertl 20X scope---and we were shooting at 50 FEET not yards. I knew of one renegade shooter that used a 14x scope and was regularly pestered with the 'why didn't you get the 20x' questions at almost every match.

P.S. Your friend had a 452 that day but did they ever let you try their 'Olympic level' rifle?
 
I have found that a quality 2-7x variable rimfire scope seems to work out best for the widest variety of uses.

I use a Leupold 2-7x on my Marlin model 60 and have been very pleased with the results.

IMG_3745_zps0af9ccd9.jpg


I used Leupold vertically-split rings/mounts and they have been trouble-free. They look good, too. One great feature of vertically split rings is that there is less tendency to rotate the scope out of plumb, when you tighten the screws. Use blue thread-locker for best results.

Off-hand, setting it at 2x works very well, though sometimes I use 3 or 4x instead. Off of the bench, the 7x setting is great for target shooting at 50 yards, and for shooting at longer ranges as well.

Several companies make 2-7x variables with one inch tubes, parallax adjusted for rimfire use. Some are more expensive than others. I bought the Leupold because that is what I trust, and am used to.

In my experience it seems to be the best sighting system for a good 22, overall. It will handle just about any situation that you might realistically address with a 22 LR.
 
Last edited:
A Leupold 6-18 VXII with AO and fine crosshair makes a fine scope for bench shooting and the weight is still reasonable to carry. This is a nice scope for 22lr or my 223 varmint rifle. This is a 14 ounce scope. And is 2 ounces lighter than a 3-9 Nikon efr!

I have a 4.5-14, purchased used and there is no benefit for me to that power setting. Gloss finish, fine cross hair vx III, an excellent scope but; not something I would buy new.

For hunting, I like the 2-7 leupold rimfire on a 22mag and either 2-7 or 3-9 Leupold compact (now called ultralight) on my center fires. These weigh 8 ounces. Medium or fine duplex, depending on...

I dont care for any bdc, windplex, cds, abc, xyz, gimmick dejour. Just too much clutter for me.

Target turrets are handy though and a cds on closeout maybe a great deal. But no windplex please.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top