.22 Magnum=scratch awl @ 950 fps

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I've noticed some people here have a very low opinion of the .22 magnum for defense. I have wondered why, and I especially do now. Let me explain:

I was making a play box for my cat and I needed to punch some holes in the cardboard to run string thru. I went out to the garage and brought in a scratch awl.

As I was punching the holes I noticed they were exactly the diameter of the
.22 holes I've seen in targets.

I thought: imagine the force I would need to hit the awl with a hammer to drive it thru an object that would equal a bullet going 950 fps. I have shot completely thru two 2X4's, one placed in front of the other, with my NAA mini revolver. Picture placing the tip of the awl on the wood and how hard you would have to hit it to drive it thru both boards.

Now, apply a mental image of the awl being a .22 magnum bullet being fired at an assailant. Place the tip of the awl on the abdomen, the chest, or the face, and hit the hammer with the required force to equal 950 fps. With over twelve inches of penetrative power, this bullet has a good chance of seriously damaging an internal organ, or a part of the nervous system. The critics say this kind of impact is not going to stop an aggressor. Oh, really?

Now, tell me again, how a .22 magnum isn't enough.
 
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No one ever doubted it's penetration. It's the low kinetic energy that makes it less than optimum for self defense.
 
With over twelve inches of penetrative power,
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950 fps.
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Those numbers would depend om bullet weight and barrel length of your from your NAA . You can go to their Web Sight and all the information is their . The short barrels are really bad. Longer barrel and lighter bullets do better .
I have shot thru 2 pine 2x4 with a 25 auto We know the 25ball has showed 13 to 15 inches in Jel. Yet its no power house . I don't even waste money on 22 mag any more for my NAA I put in the 22 LR cyl. and made a pinking gun .
 
The 22 mag in a rifle length barrel is fairly effective under 100 yards. My 22mag accounted for several coyotes within 100-150 yards but few were immediate kills and most ran quite a way before keeling over. In the past, the ammo was intended for rifle use and wasn't efficient in the short barrels. I had a revolver with a 4" barrel that did little but make noise and flash so it went away on a trade long ago. I don't know how it is now. I would prefer a 9 shot 22mag over a 6 shot 32 S&W but neither is much to brag about.
 
My NAA 22mag with Laserlyte is in the watch pocket of my jeans, always. There are few other guns I could always carry. A BUG most of the time, but the gun I have allways have trumps the one I left behind.
 
The critics say this kind of impact is not going to stop an aggressor. Oh, really?
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Yes, really. Stopping an aggressor is difficult and complex. Some are large, some muscular, some peeved off, some on drugs, some are just too mean to die! "Stopping" is caused by blood loss and/or physical damage to important stuff like heart, brain, spine, etc. A larger wound does more damage to the important stuff and allows for faster blood loss that results in the "stop".

While nobody wants to be shot with a .22 mag (or even a .22 short!), the odds of dying from a single .22 shot are lower than from one of the defense calibers (9mm, 357sig, .40s&w, 45acp, etc).

I think about it this way, a .22 can eventually kill a rampaging elephant, but a .22 can not stop an elephant on a rampage.
 
While something is better than nothing. Sometimes nothing is better, if I can get away without having to shoot it out, or avoid it alltogether that would be best. But if not let us take a look at the differences.

40 grains vs 230 grains - over 5 times the mass.

about
22 mag = 324 ft. lbs at muzzle.
45 ACP = 391 ft. lbs at muzzle (20% more)

Potential energy
40 X 1900 fps = 76,000
230 X 850 = 195,500

Wound channel
22 mag = .32 inch
45 ACP = .78 inch

You make the choice what you want to use. Just remenber that a 17 HMR is more deadly than a 22 mag.

Jim
 
So many "experts" swarming all over the subject, who just know what the 22 mag is going to do to various assailants and why it just will not do the job. The 22 LR has long been a popular round with assassins. Perhaps they just do not know what they are doing? Perhaps we all need a 45 and 9 rounds of +P just to feel safe? Too much paranoia and too little experience for my taste.
 
"Popular with assassins" :barf:

Perhaps this oft recited line originated from it's use in tiny espionage devices like a pen gun or something from the Cold War. That or it's just another totally goofball thing heard around gun shops and the web. Can anyone name a few "assassinations" (NOT just ordinary murders BUT political killings and such, that come to mind when you hear assassination)that were done with a 22lr?

I know people can be killed by a .22lr. It happened to a friend of
mine's father. I just want to see something about it being used in a few killings that are regarded as "assassinations."
 
Can anyone name a few "assassinations" (NOT just ordinary murders BUT political killings and such, that come to mind when you hear assassination)that were done with a 22lr?
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Well just off the top of my head, Bobby Kennedy was assassinated with a .22 lr revolver, and Reagan damn near was.

EDIT - I forgot about the Israeli Mossad team that went after the perpetrators of the 1972 Munich Olympics massacre. At least one of their targets was killed with .22 lr pistols.
 
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Personal anecdote

And worth nothing, other than as an illustration of what happened in a particular case.

During a shootout, a police officer was hit by a .22 Magnum bullet. Don't know if from a rifle or handgun, but the bullet struck him above the elbow, traveled down his forearm, and stopped in the wood grip of his service revolver. The officer did not know he had been shot until the shootout was over, and he noticed he was bleeding.

.22s, even the magnum will kill, but they cannot be counted on to stop an opponent the way larger calibers can. They will do it, but not in a manner you ought to trust your life on.
 
the .22 Magnum ain't bad, a wicked round with some punch. Not as good as the .38 Spl. but more pop than a .22 or .25. And better in a pinch.

tipoc
 
I can't prove it, but there is a documented case of a .22lr, fired from a Colt Woodsman, dropping a rampaging African elephant with one shot.
 
In my early days, my first handgun purchase was a Kimel Western 6 combo. I burned many WW Wildcats in the LR cylinder and carried RP or WW mag/hp for defense in the other. I have carried a 9 shot High Standard mag revolver camping for SD. Will from time to time put the NAA mag revolver in the pocket for a BUG. Not my first choice for SD, but better than traveling "nekid". And as a BUG for tough times, you can carry a heap of .22 mag ammo for that S&W 48 and Marlin bolt rifle.
 
Just a few days ago there was an extensive discussion on small caliber handguns for self defense...

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416172

If some want to replay that go right ahead. Seems redundant though.

The .22 Magnum round is very useful on small game in a revolver or a long gun. More useful than some more recent rounds IMHO. It can be deadly as any handgun round can be. It is not as useful for self defense as a service caliber though and folks shouldn't confuse the effectiveness.

tipoc
 
Especially out of a rifle length barrel! I would actually be quite comfortable defending myself with my henry 22 magnum.

However, since there are better options, I dont.
 
You have to consider more:

-adrenaline
-drugs/alcohol
-mindset
-shot placement
-anatomy of the body
-etc.

.22 lr would make a great assassin round because the victim likely never knows what hits them, vs. a guy bent on tearing your limbs off with his bare hands. In the latter case, the body is readying itself for possible injury, which makes it less effective.

Hunting a grizzly is easier than defending against an attacking black bear.
 
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