22 LR for Self Defense

G

Gunfighter

New member
My wife is little and can't pull the trigger on my Speed Six. She does however love to shoot my MK II and is good with it. What is the best 22LR self defense ammo until I can get her to try a Mak?

------------------
When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.
 
I beg to differ, on two points---

I think one would be better off with whichever .22 LR SOLID would function best--Preferably a high velocity, such as CCI MiniMag or the Remington Thunderbolt.

Feeding is a bit more reliable with solids, and you want sure and certain penetration. There seems to be a consensus that the HPs do not penetrate very well into the skulls of steers in slaughterhouse and while finishing off wounded deer. I would figure that a steer's skull would be significantly thicker than a human's, but not a whitetail deer's skull.

I think he best training would be three or four into the chest first, and then instantly going for the eye sockets. The head and neck are very mobile and very quick to jerk aside and dodge. The justification for shooting a human in the first place is if he is already doing something agressive and violent, and is thus already into an action mode. The "Mozambique Drill" is two to the body and one to the head. Those chest hits might slow things down, even if they aren't instant stoppers.

A situation where the head is holding still with the owner pretty much unaware of a MK II (not a small, sneaky handgun) is more of an ambush than a defensive situation . When we tell one another about the mob and the Mossad using .22 LRs, we are really describing executions or assassinations, not defensive shootings.

A few good chest hits with good penetration, even if not immediately incapacitating, are far superior to clean misses or marginal, glancing hits to the head.

I realize this is a rather grisly conversation, but let's be realistic, especially if discussing saving the life of a loved one.

Best regards---

------------------
---The Second Amendment ensures the rest of the Bill of Rights---
 
I'm not sure if Stingers or Mini-mags offer an order of magnitude increase in stopping power; clearly a specious concept in the .22 long rifle to begin with. By all means, if they function reliably in the gun of your choice, go for it. Otherwise, experiment heavily for 2 cents a round and optimize reliability and practice headshots exclusively.

------------------
 
IMHO, If it MUST be .22, then I advise teaching her to aim for the crotch and fire as fast as possible until the gun is empty. (assuming one goblin) It's the only way MY non-practicing wife is ever goin to hit anything important. We're talking stress-fire here, and unless she's willing to practice more than you or me (we use big guns after all) no other form of .22 fire will be useful.

Think about it. Crotch, belly, diaphram, chest, Head. 2 rounds each (roughly). Big targets first and muzzle climb will make for a nice stich-line to termination. (Tell me of one human male with the cahones to fight when he's missing his cahones?)

Besides, an empty gun is a good defense in court (fight or flight panic response).

Otherwise, get her a good SA .45ACP. (Glock w/4lb disconnect if you must.)

------------------
_______________________

HONOR PRAE OMNIBUS
INIURIA MINIMA OMNIBUS
****
Honor Before All
Doing Least Harm Always
_______________________


[This message has been edited by MrMisanthrope (edited October 09, 2000).]
 
Mrmisanthrope, why would you teach someone to aim for the crotch in a stressfire situation? What are you trying to accomplish? The goblin won't be killed there, just pissed, especially with a .22. If you can teach someone to be that good of a shot, have them shoot the head...but under stress, most people won't be that good, will they?

A relevant discussion of this can be found at [Link to invalid post]

Check it out.

As for Gunfighter's question, your wife's issue with shooting doesn't appear to be caliber, but trigger pull. Get her the largest caliber she can shoot well and find a gun with the trigger pull that suits her. We had the same problem with my mother who is in her sixties. We went to the range and rented a variety of guns and she settled on the Glock 26 as being a gun with a good trigger for her and a grip her size. She also shoots it very well.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Big targets first and muzzle climb will make for a nice stich-line to termination. [/quote]

A .22 pistol doesn't have that much muzzle climb, especially at close range. A shooter is more likely to jerk shots downward and away from the shooting hand.

Anyway, my vote would be for the most reliable high velocity .22 round, preferably one with a flat-pointed bullet. I would not bet my life on any of Remington's .22 ammo.
 
My only comment is that the eye (balls) will only take roughly 22 lbs/sq-in, before they rupture from a direct contact pressure. The nose is made of soft bone... So a .22 will drop a guy if it's placed correctly, regardless of what load...

My gf is small, and she can't handle anything too big either, but I think she can shoot a .38Special pretty well, and her hands are very small. So consider a nice .38Special for your wife. In SA, she should be able to shoot it no problem. Also, when you move to a .38Special, you can then use things such as http://www.corbon.com/beesafe.html
For defense.

Shoot safe.
Albert
 
Since pissing off a BG is not a good idea, I would get your wife a more reasonable caliber for self-defense.
 
I'll go with Gary H.
Just tell her not to use a .22 for that. It is for paper and tin cans.
She wants to stop the attack not make it angrier. .32 minimum.
 
Shawn,

Have you tested the Winchester Power Points in gelatin? If so, how far do they penetrate, and how do they compare with the CCI Stingers?
 
There are guns that might fit her hand - so let her try a whole bunch of different ones.

Also, a good trainer (not you) can do wonders in getting the recoil shy to fire the larger calibers. Small teenage kids can handle 1911s, etc.

Try for trying and some other guns with small grips like a Kahr.

As far the the J frame with Corbons, that's a handle to fire without training.

As far as pissing off the bad guy - as said again and again most DGUs have NO shots fired so you are ahead of the game with just a gun period.

As far as where to shoot, you can't beat the classic 2 COM and then to the head.
 
I just put smaller rubber grips on my 357 Speed Six for her. She just has weak hands. I may just get the pull lightened. She has good technique. I am an instructor to include SWAT personel, so she has had good instruction. Got her a hand strengthener.

------------------
When guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns.
 
My wife had the same problem, loved .22's but had trouble handling anything heavier. From a purely personal point of view I think the .22LR is a nasty piece of work to be on the receiving end of, I believe it still accounts for more deaths than any other caliber. It has a tendency to bounce around off bone inside you and as a consequence rarely exits, this leaves a long and twisting wound path that is surprisingly destructive. The Beretta double action mouse guns in .22 and .25 may be jokes in many peoples eyes but they are better than screaming for help, and as for making someone more angry, well, I've always felt that being shot at with anything would disippate my anger pretty quickly, I've never seen a rioting mob run towards the sound of gunfire. Buy her what she likes not what everyone else likes, then show her a Sig P232 in .380.

Mike H
 
.22 for offence, not defence.

.22s are responsible for a lot of deaths, but if the bad guy dies later it does you no good.

Very rarely has a .22 STOPPED a human, like right now stopped.

Sam
 
Hey a .22 beats bare hands OR a knife any day. They are easy to shoot well and will kill and they are just as intimidating as a .45 when your looking down the barell. I used to have a .22 baretta double action pocket auto and with NO sighting, just pointing, I could empty the whole clip into the center of a paper plate at 7 yards before you could take 2 steps

my .22 cents LOL ;)

shiro
 
RE:A .22 pistol doesn't have that much muzzle climb, especially at close range. A shooter is more likely to jerk shots downward and away from the shooting hand.

Try a Jennings (POS, I know) or other alloy pocket toy - esp. with a "soft" seer (as they tend to get after a couple hundred rounds of Stingers). Wives often have a nonsensical attraction to "cute".

RE: Hey a .22 beats bare hands OR a knife any day. They are easy to shoot well and will kill and they are just as intimidating as a .45 when your looking down the barell. I used to have a .22 baretta double action pocket auto and with NO sighting, just pointing, I could empty the whole clip into the center of a paper plate at 7 yards before you could take 2 steps

My point. As for "aiming" at the crotch.. aiming is too strong a word. Try "low, center mass". And my wife's .22 stich-line looks more than slightly "irritating" on a standard silhouette.

As I also said. I would NEVER advocate a .22 to anyone who doesn't refuse to use anything else.

Get her a small .410 pump... they are "cute" too.
 
My mother cannot hit ANYTHING (will miss a doorframe from 5 feet) with a .22 revolver. She can hit fine with a a Browining Buckmark.

I researched into what works for people like her: slim grips and short trigger reach seem important. Any autoloader that's easy to rack, isn't too heavy and has a short trigger throw. That pretty much means full-sized .32acp or .380 or 9x19. Kahr P9, although a DAO, works fine. I am sure that Steyr M or S would work.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top