Bugger Red
Inactive
I would like to buy a 22-250, but I can’t decide which barrel twist rate to go with.Does anyone have any input, it would be used mostly for white tail hunting.
22-250
- Thread starter Bugger Red
- Start date
Welcome to tfl!
I've had a .22-250 since the early 70s, it's a great, possibly the best, practical upper end varmint cartridge. but as a deer round, there are better choices.
First thing to check is the legality of .22 centerfire for deer in your state. Many more states allow it today than once did, but there are still some which require a bullet of .24 caliber, or larger.
If legal in your state, the next thing to look at is rifles AND ammunition.
Do you handload? Are you thinking of starting?
The majority of .22-250s are set up as varmint rifles, and use a 1-14" twist. This twist is great for bullets in the 40-55gr range, which are not suitable deer bullets.
And, the majority of factory ammo is varmint ammo.
What bullet are you intending to use for deer? The long heavy 70-80-90gr bullets developed for long range match shooting in .223 ARs may not be good hunting bullets. You need to check with the people that make them and see what they say about it.
With 55gr bullets, the .22-250 beats the .223 by 400fps, up to 600fps if you push it. I would expect a similar difference using the heavy 70gr+ slugs too, BUT those bullets won't shoot well from the standard 1-14" .22-250 twist barrels. You can get a faster twist barrel put on, but be aware those barrels are unlikely to shoot the light varmint bullets very well.
IF its primarily going to be a deer rifle, I'd suggest something larger caliber. .243 Win or above.
My favorite varmint rifle has been my .22-250 for decades. For deer hunting, I usually use a .308 Remington carbine but there are literally dozens of adequate cartridges larger than .22 caliber that work just fine if the hunter does their part properly.
Am not saying you can't use a .22-250, or even that you shouldn't but I think that for deer, there are better choices.
I've had a .22-250 since the early 70s, it's a great, possibly the best, practical upper end varmint cartridge. but as a deer round, there are better choices.
First thing to check is the legality of .22 centerfire for deer in your state. Many more states allow it today than once did, but there are still some which require a bullet of .24 caliber, or larger.
If legal in your state, the next thing to look at is rifles AND ammunition.
Do you handload? Are you thinking of starting?
The majority of .22-250s are set up as varmint rifles, and use a 1-14" twist. This twist is great for bullets in the 40-55gr range, which are not suitable deer bullets.
And, the majority of factory ammo is varmint ammo.
What bullet are you intending to use for deer? The long heavy 70-80-90gr bullets developed for long range match shooting in .223 ARs may not be good hunting bullets. You need to check with the people that make them and see what they say about it.
With 55gr bullets, the .22-250 beats the .223 by 400fps, up to 600fps if you push it. I would expect a similar difference using the heavy 70gr+ slugs too, BUT those bullets won't shoot well from the standard 1-14" .22-250 twist barrels. You can get a faster twist barrel put on, but be aware those barrels are unlikely to shoot the light varmint bullets very well.
IF its primarily going to be a deer rifle, I'd suggest something larger caliber. .243 Win or above.
My favorite varmint rifle has been my .22-250 for decades. For deer hunting, I usually use a .308 Remington carbine but there are literally dozens of adequate cartridges larger than .22 caliber that work just fine if the hunter does their part properly.
Am not saying you can't use a .22-250, or even that you shouldn't but I think that for deer, there are better choices.
ligonierbill
New member
Assuming you are buying a rifle and not building or rebarreling, get the fastest twist you can find. Shaw sells 22 bore barrels as fast as 6.5. I know my 1:9 223 does not do great with >65 grain bullets. That said, I agree that while you can kill deer with a 22, a 6mm+ is much better. There is a reason the 243 is so popular.
My native state of PA considered setting a .240 minimum for big game. Opposition came from a dedicated group of 22-250 shooters (can't use an AR there anyway). So, it can be done.
My native state of PA considered setting a .240 minimum for big game. Opposition came from a dedicated group of 22-250 shooters (can't use an AR there anyway). So, it can be done.
My oldest .22-50 was a 1:14 twist, that was the original twist. Shoots 52 and 53 grain bullets great, 55 not so great.
My current .22-250 is 1:12 twist. Shoots 55 grain bullets as good as the 52 grains, 60 just OK, and 65 grains not so great.
There are some .22-250 factory models that can be ordered in 1:9 twist. Two years ago, Savage used to make one, but I am not sure they still do. One might still be around NIB.
If you don't intend to buy and fit a new barrel, I would go with a 1:9 twist if possible.
By the way, twist stability is very barrel and bullet shape dependent.
I have two 1:9 twist .223 that shoot 77 grain Sierra Match Kings and Tipped Match Kings great.
It's sort of luck of the draw with a particular barrel's twist.
The the factory twist rating is what they intend, but the way the lathe is actually set when they do the rifling in the barrel determines what you actually get.
IMO bullet body length (the amount of bullet that actually touches the lands and is imparted with the spin) has a lot to do with how a bullet performs in a particular barrel (regardless of bullet weight).
Also choosing the right bullet shape is important when it comes to bullet stability. The center of gravity and a tangent or secant shaped bullet tip actually does make a difference in how the bullet stabilizes if the bullet is at the stability boundary.
My current .22-250 is 1:12 twist. Shoots 55 grain bullets as good as the 52 grains, 60 just OK, and 65 grains not so great.
There are some .22-250 factory models that can be ordered in 1:9 twist. Two years ago, Savage used to make one, but I am not sure they still do. One might still be around NIB.
If you don't intend to buy and fit a new barrel, I would go with a 1:9 twist if possible.
By the way, twist stability is very barrel and bullet shape dependent.
I have two 1:9 twist .223 that shoot 77 grain Sierra Match Kings and Tipped Match Kings great.
It's sort of luck of the draw with a particular barrel's twist.
The the factory twist rating is what they intend, but the way the lathe is actually set when they do the rifling in the barrel determines what you actually get.
IMO bullet body length (the amount of bullet that actually touches the lands and is imparted with the spin) has a lot to do with how a bullet performs in a particular barrel (regardless of bullet weight).
Also choosing the right bullet shape is important when it comes to bullet stability. The center of gravity and a tangent or secant shaped bullet tip actually does make a difference in how the bullet stabilizes if the bullet is at the stability boundary.
If you're planning to use it for deer hunting you'll want to use heavier bullets. That means a slower than normal twist. Most 22-250's are designed with bullets 55 gr and lighter. You'll need 1:9 or 1:8 to shoot 60+ gr bullets. If you can find one.
Honestly, it is easier to make this work with a 223. Most 223's now come with barrels twisted for heavier bullets whereas few 22-250's do.
I'll echo what others have said. A 223 or 22-250 will kill deer, I've done it. If that is the only thing I had I'd use it with proper bullets. But I wouldn't buy either specifically to deer hunt with.
A 243 is a good choice, but anymore I'd skip right over it and go with 6.5CM. Recoil is virtually the same and it is a major step up in performance. The 243 is a great combo deer/varmint cartridge, but is borderline for anything bigger than deer. The 6.5's are still a viable varmint round, probably ideal for deer, yet still more than acceptable for game as large as moose and elk.
Honestly, it is easier to make this work with a 223. Most 223's now come with barrels twisted for heavier bullets whereas few 22-250's do.
I'll echo what others have said. A 223 or 22-250 will kill deer, I've done it. If that is the only thing I had I'd use it with proper bullets. But I wouldn't buy either specifically to deer hunt with.
A 243 is a good choice, but anymore I'd skip right over it and go with 6.5CM. Recoil is virtually the same and it is a major step up in performance. The 243 is a great combo deer/varmint cartridge, but is borderline for anything bigger than deer. The 6.5's are still a viable varmint round, probably ideal for deer, yet still more than acceptable for game as large as moose and elk.
NoSecondBest
New member
No, that’s just the opposite of what you want. Heavier bullets require a faster twist, not a slower one. That’s why the barrel manufacturers are now offering 1:8, 1:9 twists for guns in .22cal that shoot heavy for cal bullets (good example is AR’s shooting 69 grain bullets in .223).
https://www.nrablog.com/articles/2017/3/how-to-pick-the-right-round-for-your-ar15-barrel/
Jim Watson
New member
Off the top of my head since I am not a hunter and not inclined to scroll through all the catalogs, just reporting and opinionating...
There are .22 game bullets out there, such as Sierra Tipped Game King and Barnes TTSX.
The heavier/longer ones call for a fast twist which seems uncommon in .22-250 rifles.
There are the old 63 gr Sierra semi-pointed and Speer 70 gr which they call semi-pointed which sure looks like a roundnose to me. They were meant as game bullets in varmint rifles. My 14 twist Ruger shoots the Speer OK.
Midway lists an Underwood factory load with 60 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip that ought to work.
There are .22 game bullets out there, such as Sierra Tipped Game King and Barnes TTSX.
The heavier/longer ones call for a fast twist which seems uncommon in .22-250 rifles.
There are the old 63 gr Sierra semi-pointed and Speer 70 gr which they call semi-pointed which sure looks like a roundnose to me. They were meant as game bullets in varmint rifles. My 14 twist Ruger shoots the Speer OK.
Midway lists an Underwood factory load with 60 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip that ought to work.
If you really want a .22-250 then I'd go with the 1:10 twist Ruger American, it is probably the fastest twist .22-250 on the market right now. When in doubt always go with the fastest twist available it just allows more bullet options in the long run. Just make sure you select good ammunition like Barnes Vor-TX 50 grain TSX ammunition for deer hunting.
If you don't reload then .223 Rem, 6mm/6.5 Creedmoor, and .243 Win will be better choices for finding deer hunting ammunition. You need a tough bullet to handle .22-250 velocites on game larger than varmints, and bullets will be the issue in this cartridge. If you do reload then just stick to bonded, partitioned, and mono metal bullets in the 55-60 grain range and you'll be fine for deer.
Edit: Tikka T3xLite 1:8 twist, this is the rifle I'd buy with deer hunting in mind. This will allow the most options for using deer appropriate bullets. The Ruger American would be my second choice.
If you don't reload then .223 Rem, 6mm/6.5 Creedmoor, and .243 Win will be better choices for finding deer hunting ammunition. You need a tough bullet to handle .22-250 velocites on game larger than varmints, and bullets will be the issue in this cartridge. If you do reload then just stick to bonded, partitioned, and mono metal bullets in the 55-60 grain range and you'll be fine for deer.
Edit: Tikka T3xLite 1:8 twist, this is the rifle I'd buy with deer hunting in mind. This will allow the most options for using deer appropriate bullets. The Ruger American would be my second choice.
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Jim Watson
New member
Ah, he trawled the catalogs.
In 1987 Ken Waters 'Pet Loads' was a 10 twist .22-250 which was "very accurate" with 69 gr Sierra which is about all there was in the way of heavy .22 spitzers. It also shot the blunt 70 gr Speer.
But an 8 twist Tikka? GO! I knew they made the .223 in 8 twist but was not aware that the .22-250 was in the same barrel.
In 1987 Ken Waters 'Pet Loads' was a 10 twist .22-250 which was "very accurate" with 69 gr Sierra which is about all there was in the way of heavy .22 spitzers. It also shot the blunt 70 gr Speer.
But an 8 twist Tikka? GO! I knew they made the .223 in 8 twist but was not aware that the .22-250 was in the same barrel.
stagpanther
New member
Just make sure the cartridge with mongo bullet can be chambered.
I've used the Sierra 63gr "semi spitzers" in my Win model 70 varmint. It has the standard 1-14" twist.
Shooting varmint bullets and with me having a good day, it does 3/4" groups. Shooting the heavy "deer' bullet groups were never better than 1.5-2 inches.
Which is entirely adequate accuracy for deer at most hunting distances.
The smaller the bullet, the more surgically precise the shot needs to be. If you're that good (and some people are) use anything you want. But, if you only think you're that good, and you're not, the odds of wounded and possibly lost game increase hugely.
I'd agree this is the general wisdom, but will allow that border is defined by the skill of the shooter, more than the caliber being shot. I've seen guys on both sides of that borderline.
I met an old boy who had just taken his sixth (6th) elk with his .243 Win. He though it was the perfect elk rifle, and for him, it was. He hunted in deep timber, none of his shots was more than 70yds, most less, he only took head or neck shots, and was the kind of guy who could and would pass up any shot where he wasn't certain of putting the bullet exactly where he wanted. The rifle was light, didn't kick, and he had taken half a dozen elk with it, and still had over half the box of shells he bought when he got the rifle.
And on the other side of the coin, I have seen guys shooting .300 Megamagnums (and bigger!
) who would be lucky to hit an elk anywhere, because they couldn't shoot their rifle worth a damn, it kicked the snot out of them and scared them (flinch). But they all seem to think they can drop one at 600yds, because of paper ballistics (or they read it on the Internet...
)
The rifle matters, but not as much as the person pulling the trigger.
Shooting varmint bullets and with me having a good day, it does 3/4" groups. Shooting the heavy "deer' bullet groups were never better than 1.5-2 inches.
Which is entirely adequate accuracy for deer at most hunting distances.
The smaller the bullet, the more surgically precise the shot needs to be. If you're that good (and some people are) use anything you want. But, if you only think you're that good, and you're not, the odds of wounded and possibly lost game increase hugely.
I'd agree this is the general wisdom, but will allow that border is defined by the skill of the shooter, more than the caliber being shot. I've seen guys on both sides of that borderline.
I met an old boy who had just taken his sixth (6th) elk with his .243 Win. He though it was the perfect elk rifle, and for him, it was. He hunted in deep timber, none of his shots was more than 70yds, most less, he only took head or neck shots, and was the kind of guy who could and would pass up any shot where he wasn't certain of putting the bullet exactly where he wanted. The rifle was light, didn't kick, and he had taken half a dozen elk with it, and still had over half the box of shells he bought when he got the rifle.
And on the other side of the coin, I have seen guys shooting .300 Megamagnums (and bigger!
) who would be lucky to hit an elk anywhere, because they couldn't shoot their rifle worth a damn, it kicked the snot out of them and scared them (flinch). But they all seem to think they can drop one at 600yds, because of paper ballistics (or they read it on the Internet...)The rifle matters, but not as much as the person pulling the trigger.
Jim Watson
New member
Right. A friend reported back that contrary to the predictions of the Magnumists, a .280 Remington will not bounce off elk hide. (He had an inaccurate 7x57 rebarrelled to .280.)
bamaranger
New member
.223 deer bullet
I've experimented with the .22-250 for a deer load, and came up with same, but have not taken a deer with it, and only carried the rifle, a Ruger 77V, to the woods once. Passed up a longish shot BTW.
Anyhow, the bullet I worked with was the Nosler 60 gr Partition. That slug is a
sort of semi-spitzer, a bit blunt, by design, to shorten it's overall length and allow slower twist rates a better chance to stabilize the projectile. Nosler had that bullet on the market pretty early, aiming at the slow twist sporter rifles of the era.
The old 77V is an absolute tack driver with 52 grain MHP's, delivering dime size groups on demand, and I've had the rifle for nearly 40 yrs. On the other hand, the 60 gr Partition shoots into about 1.5 MOA, certainly deer accurate,, but not up to the rifles known potential with bullets it was intended to shoot with it;s 1:14 twist (?).
I've experimented with the .22-250 for a deer load, and came up with same, but have not taken a deer with it, and only carried the rifle, a Ruger 77V, to the woods once. Passed up a longish shot BTW.
Anyhow, the bullet I worked with was the Nosler 60 gr Partition. That slug is a
sort of semi-spitzer, a bit blunt, by design, to shorten it's overall length and allow slower twist rates a better chance to stabilize the projectile. Nosler had that bullet on the market pretty early, aiming at the slow twist sporter rifles of the era.
The old 77V is an absolute tack driver with 52 grain MHP's, delivering dime size groups on demand, and I've had the rifle for nearly 40 yrs. On the other hand, the 60 gr Partition shoots into about 1.5 MOA, certainly deer accurate,, but not up to the rifles known potential with bullets it was intended to shoot with it;s 1:14 twist (?).
Colorado Redneck
New member
Swift Scirocco
Swift makes a 75 gr. Scirocco that should work in a 9 twist, for sure will in an 8 twist. I used JBM Stability calculator and guessed at the length of the plastic tip. Has a 0.419 ballistic coefficient and decent sectional density. My opinion is, for whitetail that would be pretty darn good in 22-250. Yeah, bigger is better, but that field gets plowed over the 243 Winchester, 250 Savage, 6.5 Creedmoor etc. If you want to hunt deer with a 22 center fire, and it's legal where you're going to hunt, the 22-250 would be my choice. Nebraska allows 22 centerfire for deer and pronghorn. I thought about getting another 22-250 and using that for mulie does. Still thinking...
Swift makes a 75 gr. Scirocco that should work in a 9 twist, for sure will in an 8 twist. I used JBM Stability calculator and guessed at the length of the plastic tip. Has a 0.419 ballistic coefficient and decent sectional density. My opinion is, for whitetail that would be pretty darn good in 22-250. Yeah, bigger is better, but that field gets plowed over the 243 Winchester, 250 Savage, 6.5 Creedmoor etc. If you want to hunt deer with a 22 center fire, and it's legal where you're going to hunt, the 22-250 would be my choice. Nebraska allows 22 centerfire for deer and pronghorn. I thought about getting another 22-250 and using that for mulie does. Still thinking...
I am a huge fan of the 22-250, been shooting one for the past 43 years (wow, just saying that makes me feel old). I have shot ground squirrels, coyotes, bobcats, jackrabbits, badger, and even watched my friend shoot a deer (I was right next to him spotting for him). On the one occasion I saw it used on a deer, it was a 400+ yds shot, and the little buck jumped up and put his nose to his toes and flopped down. Spectacular! I have also spoken with other people who say they shot a deer with a 22-250 and it ran off (probably died 100 yds away, but never recovered). So I am with the others here: get a 243 or a 250 Savage for deer, the bigger bullet will cleanly take any deer in the country.
I suggest you use....
https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
To find the best twist for the bullets you'll use.
https://www.jbmballistics.com/cgi-bin/jbmstab-5.1.cgi
To find the best twist for the bullets you'll use.
reynolds357
New member
For whitetail, 1 in 9. I would not recommend any faster than that. .22-250 will stabilize same bullets at 1 in 9 that a 1 in 7 is required to stabilize in. 223. Despite what some say, over stabilization is as harmful to accuracy as understabilization. ,
For white tail a 243 would be a much better choice imho.
Assuming it's legal in your area, and you are set on 22-250, there are 2 factors to deal with. Bullet type, solid copper, or traditional jacketed lead. And bullet weight. The longer the bullet, the more twist you need. Solid copper are longer for the same weight. And generally the heavier the bullet, the longer it will be.
If you do plan on varmint shooting, I would go 1:9. The 1:7 may be too fast for light, thin jacketed varmint bullets. They may spin so fast they come apart. If it's a deer gun, with heavier bullets, go 1:7
Assuming it's legal in your area, and you are set on 22-250, there are 2 factors to deal with. Bullet type, solid copper, or traditional jacketed lead. And bullet weight. The longer the bullet, the more twist you need. Solid copper are longer for the same weight. And generally the heavier the bullet, the longer it will be.
If you do plan on varmint shooting, I would go 1:9. The 1:7 may be too fast for light, thin jacketed varmint bullets. They may spin so fast they come apart. If it's a deer gun, with heavier bullets, go 1:7