.22-250 as a Sniper round?

G

Glock4ever

New member
I know that the .308 is "the" sniper round but if some nations are using .223 why not use the .22-250? Is this because of ammunition restrictions? Wouldn't a .22-250 be a "better" sniper round than the .223?
 
Speaking of military snipers, whose missions are totally different from police: Targets are generally out beyond 600 or more yards. Generally, the 30-caliber projectile is superior to any of 22-caliber because of less effect of crosswinds.

A .22-250 would be superior to a .223 due to the greater velocity at all ranges, but it still would be less effective than a .30.

As near as I can tell--and I don't pretend to be any sort of expert, here--a police "sniper" is usually well within 200 yards. Almost any deer cartridge would work. The primary criterion is more "That's what they use, so that's what I use." than anything else. Standardization, I guess--which makes economic sense.

FWIW, Art
 
Art is correct as far as Fashion dictates.

However, legitimately, the .22 rounds are deflected more by glass, twigs and leaves and often police must be willing to shoot though glass.

Actually, now with the .50s being easily transportable, the Mercenary (hired by govt.) snipers are tending more toward some of the .50s from what my friend the international "Security Consultant" tells me. He's often in areas where he has one or more of these folks in use. And, he does have folks with .223s and even .22s in use. He has even had snipers use S&W model 41s rested and scoped as they are easier to transport for urban use. And, let's face it, a lot of combat is urban these days. He has a personal single shot .308 pistol which he also uses with sabot rounds of .22 cal and about 4200 fps... a 22-250 effectively.
 
Having done one hellova lot of testing on the 308win and the 22-250 at extended ranges I can factually state that the little 80 grain 22 caliber will kick butt on the 308 projectile all day long.

Wind deflection and elevation are substantially less than any 308winchester load available, including handloaded custom stuff.

BUT

What do you want to do, punch tiny groups from far away or actually drop some POS from great distance. The 308 with any suitable projectile has two times the terminal energy of the 22-250 at extended range, and that's the real telling factor...........does the BG drop or just look annoyed at the mosquito bite?

My two cents, worth every bit of what you paid for it. :D
 
One problem is that there is no AP, incendiary or good tracer available for the .22-250; another is that long-range penetration is not good. And of course, for the military its use would require another supply chain just for sniper ammo, that could not interchange with the ammo used by anyone else.

Jim
 
The reason I am asking....

is that if the military and LE agencies use "custom" ammunition in these rifles... what does it matter if "standardization" is a concern? No sniper is going to used standard rounds that are issued to regular troops - even in the same caliber - so what does it matter if the military sniper is using a .308, .223, or a .22-250. Isn't power and ballistics the most important factor? I understand the use of the .308 - the impressive ballistics, stopping power, and the fact that it is a short action but why .223 when the .22-250 is clearly a superior, short-action, round?
 
Ummm Jim....

I don't believe snipers use incendiary and tracer rounds... but as well, wouldn't any bullet that could be fired from the .223 be loaded into the .22-250's case???? I guess mainly I'm interested in knowing why the military opted for the .223 as a sniper round.
 
Using standard NATO rounds is important to the millitary even if they do use custom rounds in the 308. The idea being if they run out of thier "special" rounds they can still grab some from somebody in an emergency. BTW Carlos Hathcock said this was nonsence and that no sniper he ever knew needed to grab rounds off an M-60. That said I believe the newest Army Sniper rifles are really 300 mag, with a chamber insert or something like that to allow use of 308 if needed.

Any .22 for police took a severe blow several years ago when the FBI sent out a notice to local PD's suggesting they not use .223's for "sniper" rifles due too problems with underpenetration. They reccomended a .308 cal weapon. Most Departments don't have the time and resources to do thier own testing so they tend to follow the FBI's lead in such matters. Seems it was not long after that the FBI went with a 7mm Remignton magnum as thier JAR sniper round:confused:
 
Glock4ever: When they first came out with the .223, I was sorta raised-eyebrow over its lesser performance when compared to the .22-250 or the Swift.

However, I started--casually--learning a bit more about military doctrine, which is what brings about the parameters for the various guns and planes and such--this country or any other.

The .223 (generally) is adequate within U.S. military doctrine for an Infantryman to be effective to some 200 or 300 yards.

Art
 
Michael ?

Carlos data was from his book, 93 confirmed kills.

FBI info was from a local Police Officer when I took him along to make an arrest of one of my clients. He was and is the Departments designated markmen (no swat team here). Could be right could be wrong, but as I also read it in some gun mag later I assume it correct (at least at the time).

Not exactly sure what your problem is, but while freely admiting to not being really into sniping or an expert of any sort, I'd be happy to clarify anything I posted.

Regards, Blueduck
 
I guess all this speculation is pretty moot as .308 is the superior cartridge military cartridge [hence it's adoption by most of snipers of the world] - I guess selection of military cartridges is a complex issue but sometimes I wonder [along with many other ppl] why some rounds are selected over others...
 
Blue Duck just to clerify, the Army sniper weapon, the M24 SWS, is a long action Remington chmabered for .308. They made them long action so that unit armorers could, if needed by a specific mission, rebarrel the rifle to 300WM. They also come with a separate bolt because the .308 bolt wouldn't work with the 300WM. There aren't any chamber inserts like the ones used to turn M1 Garands from 30-06 to .308.
 
Thanks Rob, I had just rememberd reading something to the effect that the rifle's cost was brought way up due to the requirment that it be able to be converted from 7.62 to 300 mag.
 
No problem. From what I've heard they don't change them to .300WM alot and some people complain about feeding because of the long action and the short .308 round. Anytime I can help.
 
22 caliber is generally too small for effective sniper operations, 6.5mm is as small as I'd care to go. For my complete diatribe on this topic look at the duty roster at Sniper Country, in the archives from about three weeks ago, early August, late July posted as Ken M. FBI uses 308, the secret service used to use 7mm Rem Mag, but they switched to 300 Win mag according to what I've heard. Might be wrong. Ammo standardization isn't the big deal everybody claims it to be, it's the civilian tac reload of the sniper world. We get special ammo(currently M118LR) and if we don't get it, M80 SUCKS. You're better off using M855 from your M16A2 or M4 with the ACOG on it. Which we have to carry also, since a bolt gun in a fire fight is just dead weight for the most part. Semper Fidelis...Ken M
 
Why not get the advantages of both?

A 300 Winchester Magnum fireing a saboted .22 caliber 100 grain depleted uranium spitzer boat tail bullet at 4000 to 5000 FPS?

Would make the concept of lite body armor kind of moot!

Great trajectory too!

:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top