I have smallish 8 and 9 year olds that I am now teaching to shoot. Was thinking of a Pardner .410 single shot or something. I have heard a .28 is just as light recoil wise, but has near the knockdown of a .20. True? I don't think I would get a .20 right now unless is was auto for recoil reduction and I don't want them to handle an auto off the bat. I am thinking a single shot really helps hone that one shot, one kill talent! You guys have any good suggestions for what youth models either new or ones I might find cheap on the used rack that would still be good quality? Thank everyone.
.20 , .28 or .410 for the youngins?
- Thread starter baddarryl
- Start date
Contrary to the thoughts of many old timers, a .410 is seldom a good choice for a kid if you ever hope they will actually enjoy shooting. There is so little shot in there it is really hard to hit anything with it. As a squirrel gun for a kid, yes it has its place. However, to hit anything flying with a .410 requires some expertise. Placing it in the hands of a kid is likely to result in frustration.
I've never owned a 28ga, but unless you reload you'll have to order your shells online. That can add up.
That leaves you with a 20ga. My first shots at a flying target were with a 20ga 1100 with a youth stock. I was probably about 12 at the time. The kid that owned it was 2 years younger than me and he handled it fine too. Recoil through the autoloader was quite manageable even for a skinny kid like me. Ammo for it will be available at any gun counter.
I've never owned a 28ga, but unless you reload you'll have to order your shells online. That can add up.
That leaves you with a 20ga. My first shots at a flying target were with a 20ga 1100 with a youth stock. I was probably about 12 at the time. The kid that owned it was 2 years younger than me and he handled it fine too. Recoil through the autoloader was quite manageable even for a skinny kid like me. Ammo for it will be available at any gun counter.
oneounceload
Moderator
Or, you could go to your local Wally World and buy them off the shelf. They cost more than 12 or 20, but you can also sell the empties to a target shooter and recoup most of the difference.
One of the softest shooting guns ever is the Remington 1100 in 28 gauge. With its 20 gauge weight and lighter ammo, it is a great gun for old and young alike and just smokes targets.
Otherwise, the heaviest gun they can handle with the lightest loads that works the gun in a gun that FITS them, will give them the most success and fun - bore size doesn't matter then
oneounceload
Moderator
Every wally world, even when I lived out West, carried the Winchester AA 28 gauge target loads- which would the best choice for kids to shoot with anyway; odd that yours doesn't. It is also available at the big box stores like Gander, BASS, Dick's, etc.
Point is, though, it is available and should therefore not be a factor in the using the 28 - cost might be something different, but then a used MEC Jr. can cut those costs to about $3.00 per box - cheaper than 12 or 20
Point is, though, it is available and should therefore not be a factor in the using the 28 - cost might be something different, but then a used MEC Jr. can cut those costs to about $3.00 per box - cheaper than 12 or 20
28 gauge but availability is going to be bad. I'd go with probably a 20 gauge and use light target loads. A double barrel would be nice or even a bolt action. They make 20 gauge side by sides with rabit ears again, can't remember who makes it. Or get a cheap Maverick pump. Can always get a single shot and if it's too much recoil use a recoil pad and put lead in the stock. But really, there's nothing wrong with a .410 but you gotta be more skilled if it's gonna be used for hunting. It's more than doable, I know people that even deer hunt with them. I good idea could be a Rossi with interchangeable barrels, you can 20 gauge barrel and if it's too much for them buy a .410 barrel.
While I agree with the first sentance, I disagree with the second. The problem is not lack of shot, the problem is that most makers insist on Full Choke for their barrels. The 410 is a 25 -30 yard gun max.; it is not nor will it ever be a 50 yard bird gun. Full choke results in a dense core with poor distribution on the outter part of the pattern. Couple that with many ammo makers insistance on soft shot and you have a recipe for poor patterning. That makes wing shooting a challenge for even skilled people.
For those who doubt this; try teaching a noob to shoot skeet with a 12 gauge and full choke. I'll bet you that they walk away frustrated as hell. Try doing it yourself and see how good your scores are.
Use the heaviest gun they can handle, the lightest charges available and cyl. or I.C. choke to give them a good chance to hit.
410 11/16oz load shell 1135 fps.
28 ga. 3/4oz load 1230 - 1295 fps. depending on load
20 ga. 3/4oz. load 1210 - 1425 fps. depending on load
Source: Federal ammunition.
A 28 ga. and a 20 ga. in guns of the same weight and configuration will kick just as much.
If you look at the Mossberg Bantaam 20 gauge, they come with a dowl in them that limits the magazine to ZERO rounds. They tell you how long to cut the dowl down to later when the kids are ready for hunting. This makes it a hunting legal 2+1 configuration. I'm not sure of Rem. but I would imagine they do the same thing. You also get the benifit of screw in chokes. Just something to consider for future growth.
I looked at a Mossberg 510 .410 today that seemed cheap and like a toy. Next to a youth 870 it was. That is good info to know about the mag plug though. So is it general consensus that light loads in a heavier .20 might be ok? Found a beautiful Stevens O/U .410 that I wanted! A little pricey at $600 for me though. 
. They both shot a single shot .410 this summer at a Sheriff youth event (thanks guys) and complained of the kick, but it was their first time shooting.
. They both shot a single shot .410 this summer at a Sheriff youth event (thanks guys) and complained of the kick, but it was their first time shooting.Scubasimmons
New member
I was a skinny 10 year old and had no problems with a 20 ga 870 or SxS. Get them shooting at a moving target and it will keep their mind off the recoil.
And that would be with standard 7/8 oz. field loads in the 20 gauge no doubt.
Let's assume you use a standard 410 3" 11/16 oz. loading @ 1135 fps. and compare it to a 20 Ga. 2 3/4" 3/4 oz. 1200 fps. loading. Using Hodgdon data we can also see that both loads are able to be made with a charge of ~14 grains of powder. I am ignoring the wad weight.*
Let's assume you use a Rossi single shot 410 w/ 28" plain barrel and a Mossy Bantaam 20 pump with a 22" vent rib barrel.
According to Rossi, their 410 single shot weighs 4 lbs. According to Mossberg, their Bantaam pump weighs 6.5 lbs.
Using the formula found in Lymans Manuals (can also be found on line) the free recoil energy for the 410 works out to 13.16 ft. lbs. and the 20Ga. comes out to 10.35 ft. lb.s This is comparing two guns that deliver full recoil to the shooter. The felt recoil will be further reduced by a semi auto.
As you can see, with similar shot charges and velocities, the 20 gauge can deliver noticeably less free recoil energy than a 410 single shot.
* wad weight will change these numbers a little, but not enough to significantly alter the final result.
Olddrum you might be right. I just saw the look on my sons face when he was pulling clay birds for me for the first time on Sun! Maybe a little soon for that. Trying to wrench my dad's old Sears lever action .22 from him! My son did quite well with my Marlin bolt action and a scope though! Still want them to learn with iron sights! Thanks for your input everyone.
20 guage, for economic reasons alone.
You could handload .410's cheaper than 20's, maybe .......
But the thing with kids is to keep them shooting. Shooting takes money.
Recoil issues can be solved with an autoloader, lite loads and reactive targets.
28 guage? Those are not exactly ubiquitous ......
I learned to wingshoot with a single shot .410. It was frustrating, but I was a determined kid, and it was a GUN!, so I kept at it. I killed a few doves, quail and pheasants with it..... but when I moved up to a 16, it seemed I could not miss......
You could handload .410's cheaper than 20's, maybe .......
But the thing with kids is to keep them shooting. Shooting takes money.
Recoil issues can be solved with an autoloader, lite loads and reactive targets.
28 guage? Those are not exactly ubiquitous ......
I learned to wingshoot with a single shot .410. It was frustrating, but I was a determined kid, and it was a GUN!, so I kept at it. I killed a few doves, quail and pheasants with it..... but when I moved up to a 16, it seemed I could not miss......